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No more DCOIC?

bluemarlin04

Well-Known Member
It kind of hurts inside whenever one of my shipmates, for example, gives a platform brief on the DDG-51 class and didn’t know what the 5” deck gun was on the bow of the ship (they thought it was for missiles).
Serious question.

Why is intel briefing on blue forces? I’ve never seen that in my time on active duty. Strange. The pilots and swos always briefed their platforms and are very voca that intel doesn’t know shit about blue force caps/Lims/operations. Intel was red forces.
 

bluemarlin04

Well-Known Member
Not to nitpick, but Intel can definitely go FAO. Wouldn’t be surprised if CEC or SUPPO could, too.
Ya you’re right. Haven’t ever seen intel guys go over since they can usually pursue the DAO route and usually do that.

I worked with quite a few FAOs and they all got out of the navy and said it wasn’t what they thought it would be
 

Sculpin

Well-Known Member
In fact, there were a number in their 50s in my class-all highly successful doctors wanting to serve their country. The Navy needs quality doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc.,,and you would lose most, if not all, of them if you pigeon whole everyone into OCS.
It's a fair point, but to play the other side why can't the medical/legal types go to ODS in that case, like their AC counterparts?

I would love for someone from the Air Force familiar with recruiting and personnel to chime in and explain/clarify this in detail. At least from my communications and experience with Air Force personnel and recruiters over the years regarding both active and reserve sides, they seem to be well-manned in non-aviation AFSCs despite the fact that all officers, active or reserve, go through the same 9-week (formerly 13) OTS, while the medical/legal types go to COT (5 weeks). There's no 2 week indoc I'm aware of. They told me even early or mid last year they're not sending civilians (I forget about enlisted) for most non-rated officer AFSCs to OTS until 2020, because they're already meeting their demands from other commissioning sources (AFROTC, USAFA, ASCP, SLECP, etc.).

The question I have is what is the AF/AFR doing or how are they structured such that they seem to have little issue filling their non-rated AFSCs while the Navy Reserve decided at some point it needed a 2-week officer school to encourage people to join?

I skim/read RealClearDefense, War is Boring, and other blah defense media. Make no mistake, this sh*t is hella boring (hence the name) but it’s professional development.
I personally derive great pleasure from defense media, especially regarding defense tech and history.
 

bluemarlin04

Well-Known Member
Someone told me you can read a bunch of defense articles for free with a military membership through your command. I don’t know if anyone knows about it but if you do please share.
 

Hair Warrior

New Member
The question I have is what is the AF/AFR doing or how are they structured such that they seem to have little issue filling their non-rated AFSCs while the Navy Reserve decided at some point it needed a 2-week officer school to encourage people to join?
Back up a moment. Don’t assume the Navy Reserve created DCOIC to entice people to join. It didn’t. It created DCOIC to indoctrinate new reserve naval officers to the right-sized amount of indoctrination. It happens to be 2 weeks in order to deliver the required learning content. Selection rates for many DCO fields are astronomically low - i.e. we have plenty of applicants and don’t need to entice them. It’s not a labor shortage, it’s a management decision.
 

ABMD

Pork Chop
I recently moved and while digging through boxes found my schedule from DCOIC. I'll post up some stats on the breakdown of training.
 

ABMD

Pork Chop
So this is a general breakdown of time spent at DCOIC:

PTing: 6%
Chow: 25%
Drill: 5%
Quarters: 4%
Classroom Training: 45%
Other: 15% (urinalysis, swim test, BCA, admin/paperwork, etc)

Classroom training consisted of topics such as: Naval Customs, Naval History, Wardroom and Service Etiquette, ORM, Counseling, etc.

Although I don't remember it, and it was previously mentioned in this thread, we did cover DAPA, CMEO and SAPR training.

Does a reserve officer need 3 more weeks of this? That's not my question to answer. I was one of those people that said it should be longer in my end of course critique. That's because as a DCO I never experienced Boot Camp (not enlisted) or OCS (not AC) so this was the closest I was going to get to a "militarization" of a civilian. I also enjoyed the relationships I made in those short 2 weeks and I still keep in touch with many of the DCOs from my class.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
Does a reserve officer need 3 more weeks of this?
As a prior Enlisted sailor, I am of the opinion that DCOIC does a disservice to non-prior military people who are commissioned.

ODS was created for a reason and the only reason the Navy Reserve has not fully embraced is either 1) funding or 2) not appetizing to applicants, or 3) a little of both. Given the recent changes to training pipelines for 18XX designators, 2) is not as much a concern as CNIFR is moving towards sending people to active duty schools (new IP's attend the active duty school).
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
ODS was created for a reason and the only reason the Navy Reserve has not fully embraced is either 1) funding or 2) not appetizing to applicants, or 3) a little of both.
Probably #3. Everything costs money and the recruiting pitch is "one weekend a month and two weeks a year" with an asterisk by the recruiting pitch*

A lot of the DCOs have designator-specific professional training that is over and above that during their first couple years- supply, intel, chaps. I don't remember newly-commissioned docs and nurses having their professional training front-loaded in the same way, but instead they have continuing medical education spread throughout their reserve careers (CME being over and above the standard weekend-a-month and two weeks a year).
 

Hair Warrior

New Member
Nurses have to take CCC before deploying, but it’s a short course. I think the bonus of recruiting reserve nurses is that the Navy can throw them at OCONUS mobilizations almost immediately, with little training, due to their civilian health care credentials. If you’re a CRNA in civilian life, you’re a CRNA in the Navy.
 

ABMD

Pork Chop
As a prior Enlisted sailor, I am of the opinion that DCOIC does a disservice to non-prior military people who are commissioned.

ODS was created for a reason and the only reason the Navy Reserve has not fully embraced is either 1) funding or 2) not appetizing to applicants, or 3) a little of both. Given the recent changes to training pipelines for 18XX designators, 2) is not as much a concern as CNIFR is moving towards sending people to active duty schools (new IP's attend the active duty school).
I agree with you there. As a non-prior it was my only form of military training and to me it wasn't at all what I expected or needed. Designator schools are a different story. I think more time spent actually training people to be in the Navy could help avoid an O-4 18XX making stupid comments about getting their SWO pin (or whatever the comment was that was mentioned earlier).

Supply school accepts, when funding is available, a small number (1-2) of RC SUPPOs into the AC SUPPO school. The AC school is 5 months full-time while the RC school is 13+ months broken in 3 resident and 2 distance phases. It's the same curriculum regardless of AC/RC. I requested to go to the AC school, but was told multiple times there was no funding (shook that tree several times!).
 

ABMD

Pork Chop
Nurses have to take CCC before deploying, but it’s a short course. I think the bonus of recruiting reserve nurses is that the Navy can throw them at OCONUS mobilizations almost immediately, with little training, due to their civilian health care credentials. If you’re a CRNA in civilian life, you’re a CRNA in the Navy.
This, same goes for anyone in the Medical corps. Trauma surgeon is a trauma surgeon, anesthesiologist is an anesthesiologist.
 

bluemarlin04

Well-Known Member
As a prior Enlisted sailor, I am of the opinion that DCOIC does a disservice to non-prior military people who are commissioned.
This is what I have been saying.

I know that the DCOs are solid people for the most part with impressive resumes. That doesnt mean they do not require a militarization indoctrination. 2 weeks is far too short.
 
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