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No more DCOIC?

subreservist

Well-Known Member
CNRFC N7 via RCC
That is interesting. Well, anything is possible, and I know I have no idea how the process is setup or funded. However, usually active component and reserve component don't play nice when it comes to funding. ODS is setup for active and DCOIC is setup for reserves and they are most likely funded from their respective sources.

I guess you could still keep them separate by having ODS-Active and ODS-Reserve; I can't see them combining the Officers to mingle together, until the funding is figured out.

As far as how much more prepared it would make a DCO? I don't think @Reservist is that far off base with his "rants". Most Officers that go through ODS are Medical, Dental, JAGS, and Nurses. Not really the type of Officer that strays too far from those roles and they are obviously a different type of leader. I know quite a few and one Nurse co-worker, currently as a LCDR, still doesn't wear the uniform correctly or understand BIG Navy, including how to interact with operational enlisted sailors. I do my part to help mentor, though.

I agree more can be done, but not sure this solution addresses the issue of better training for those coming off the streets.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I agree more can be done, but not sure this solution addresses the issue of better training for those coming off the streets.
They've tried to get a handle on it for a few years now by enforcing that 5 year leadership continuum thing and tailoring the reserve versions of those classes once or twice. I guess this is the next thing to try.
 

Hair Warrior

New Member
Contributor
I'm curious to hear folks thoughts about whether, for new DCOs, whether it's wiser to sign up for the 2-week DCOIC in FY19, or wait until FY20 to sign up for the 5-week ODS. Civilian job obligations are not a concern, but rather having to wait that much longer to sign up for NIOBC.
If you are a squared-away officer, you won't need the extra 3 weeks. If you feel you need more, just proactively start practicing a little more humility, discipline (mental & physical), and self-study on naval topics and you will be fine. There are lots of books and podcasts on military leadership.
 

Hair Warrior

New Member
Contributor
5 year leadership continuum thing
RILC confused the heck out of me. Not the content, but why I was sitting in the room with mostly O-4s, and why I had to complete it before DCOIC. I still haven't done DIVOLC yet.

Edit: If the Navy Reserve absorbs DCOIC into ODS, maybe they should a few days of those 5 weeks on DIVOLC content, give everyone credit for DIVOLC, and just kill that bird with the same stone.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
RILC confused the heck out of me. Not the content, but why I was sitting in the room with mostly O-4s, and why I had to complete it before DCOIC. I still haven't done DIVOLC yet.

Edit: If the Navy Reserve absorbs DCOIC into ODS, maybe they should a few days of those 5 weeks on DIVOLC content, give everyone credit for DIVOLC, and just kill that bird with the same stone.
Yyyyyyep. They probably sent you to a leadership class before your knife-and-fork school because DCOIC didn't count for that 5 year leadership continuum (strange as that policy sounds). The day after you finish knife-and-fork school you were delinquent for leadership training. You probably ended up at intermediate leadership of all choices because that was all that was available anytime soon and not too far away.

The leadership continuum class roadshow schedule got a little more robust in the last couple years (in other words, we finally got enough resources thrown at this requirement). Those are the various two-day courses that run on Saturdays and Sundays throughout the year, usually at various NOSCs in both flyover country and the fleet concentration areas.

I almost got a nub ensign to senior leadership class (tee tee) before his DCOIC, but that was when RESFOR was disapproving all orders of guys who hadn't attended DCO, so they disapproved his travel orders to go there (IDTT orders). That made me sad because it would have been a personal victory for me against the redonkulousness of that leadership continuum requirement.

Speaking of doing anything before DCOIC, I had another nub ensign, with orders to DCOIC (his orders were funded) try to go drill with his cross assigned unit rather than watch the paint dry in our OSU classroom. RESFOR denied those IDTT orders, citing that he wasn't allowed to do any orders before going to DCOIC, no ifs, ands, or buts. Sometimes the RESFOR guys were great and they were often super helpful but this was one of those other times when it was like talking to a brick. A year or two after that the policy got changed/clarified to say no AT or ADT orders until DCOIC complete, but IDTT could be okay case-by-case... well duh.

About a year or two ago, we had a gal on orders to RILC or SOLC only to arrive and find there was no such course. Somebody had cut-and-pasted some of the previous FY's class schedule into CANTRAC. So we'd got her a quota for a phantom leadership class. Doh!!

Last parting shot (and this one really sums up my low opinion on this leadership continuum) and speaking of the roadshow classes, about a year ago there were three of these two-day courses got canceled at the last minute. The funding line for the NLEC instructors' travel had dried up. Whatever behind the scenes stuff they tried to salvage it, it didn't work. So on a Wednesday all of the NOSCs got told to cancel orders to anybody going to leadership class that Friday through Sunday (about 200 people affected across the reserves). I have no idea why a handful of students couldn't get canceled and their funding rerouted to the instructors' unfunded orders... different pots of money don't you know! Keep in mind that many of those people had booked the Friday off from their civilian jobs to go to this oh-so-important class and it wasn't on their regularly scheduled drill weekend. Leadership indeed.


These can't-make-this-$%#&-up anecdotes are brought to you by the letters F and U. I have my DD-214 which means it's someone else's turn to carry the torch and spin their wheels with this stuff.
 

Hair Warrior

New Member
Contributor
DIVOLC becomes part of DCOIC/ODS-R.
Make LTJG and below ineligible for RILC.
Make LT and below ineligible for SOLC.
 

RedGriffin

New Member
If you are a squared-away officer, you won't need the extra 3 weeks. If you feel you need more, just proactively start practicing a little more humility, discipline (mental & physical), and self-study on naval topics and you will be fine. There are lots of books and podcasts on military leadership.
Thanks, that's helpful. Any recommendations on specific books/podcasts?
 

ABMD

Pork Chop
Aside from if people think it’s necessary- I just never understood why we can’t hold active duty officers and reserve officers to the same standard and use the same training pipelines.
All the schooling for AC/RC SUPPOs is the same. Same curriculum spread over a longer period of study.
 

ABMD

Pork Chop
Have you run into a Navy Reservist DCO or enlisted that has been or a ship for mob or AT? Back in the the early 2000's - the reserve actual used to send reservists out for two week AT's to ships. Sailors loved it - and there are more good stories about reservists filling these roles than horror stories.

I haven't met one reserve sailor or heard of one in a decade that has been to AT at sea. And when I google it or ask around (intel community anyway), I found out that the Navy only uses 1830 active duty for ship stuff! The Navy does not even entertain the idea of putting and 1835 on a ship...

Have a good weekend all - and Go Pats!
Yes, if you are an Aviation Supply Officer and working towards your NASO then YES, you are doing a 2-week AT aboard a CVN to qualify. I also know of several of these officers.
 

bluemarlin04

Well-Known Member
Why cant we send new officers to OCS? Forget ODS. Everyone goes through OCS unless they went through ROTC or the Academy. What is the issue with it? Seems like it would be excellent training for everyone.
 

BarryD

Well-Known Member
Why cant we send new officers to OCS? Forget ODS. Everyone goes through OCS unless they went through ROTC or the Academy. What is the issue with it? Seems like it would be excellent training for everyone.
Don’t know if the LDO crowd would like that.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Sending everyone through OCS would water down OCS too. If all of the staff corps communities had to send their folks through there then they are going to have some say as to how it was run. When they combined AOCS with OCS in 1994, the new program was a lot less harsh than AOCS had been.

Likewise, the weeks of yelling and remedial PT for folding your socks the wrong way would be a dubious benefit for staff corps officers. As it is, it's a little odd that active component supply officers have to go through OCS but the AC docs, nurses, JAGs, chaplains, etc. do not.
 
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