Oh, I did my 2 week DCOIC a long time ago and was fine with it. Loved it.
I was just answering the question literally “who doesn’t want 5 weeks?” The spouse. The spouse doesn’t want 5 weeks.
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I was just answering the question literally “who doesn’t want 5 weeks?” The spouse. The spouse doesn’t want 5 weeks.
DCOIC was an utter waste of my time. The only consolation is that I met some good people and was able to mentor many folks.
Soon a JG
Yeah, and you almost got lucky with the hottest chick in the bar last night because she glanced at you for half a second.
Shots fired
For all those that are happy about this - congratulations! You got your way. Personally - I think this is a waste of time and an obstacle for reservists. Reserve Officers will get up to speed in time anyway, but now they will have to decide if they get to take vacation with their families the year this school happens or if their job will let them go. I still see no need to put them through a grinder for an extra three weeks. This three weeks is not going to be the determining factor as to whether someone performs when the time comes. Reserve is and was supposed to be two weeks a year and one weekend a month. We all do more than that now and everyone is looking to put more on reservist all the time. The two week program works, it worked, and in my opinion - people are trying to fix something that isn't broken.
How else are you going to memorize you 11 general orders, code of conduct and anchors aweigh?
Newsflash: it has not been this way for about 16 years.
Dude, the point of flushing DCOIC and making people attend ODS is about consistency of training. The same is happening for designator specific training.
There is a stark difference between Active and Reserve officers in this regard, more so for those who have no previous military experience. The Marine Corps figured this out long ago which is why every Marine Corps officer - Reserve of Active - attends The Basic School, regardless of commissioning source. Because of this, they get a consistent product across the board.
The Navy has been fiddle f*cking with this for years, while at the same time, wondering why there is no consistency. It's amusing.
I appreciate the humor! I'm an optimist though this post is a bit on the gray side. I get many people feel the need for more training. I even sympathize with it. I'm a reservist. I've been there and I get it. That being said - I'm a reservist and I've been there and get it. The program works already.
Active duty folks and people making this decision will all still get their 30 days vacation after this decision - hell folks deployed will get to take two weeks vacation mid deployment. Many reservists coming into the DCO Program balancing jobs, family, life ect. will bear the strain of this and have to make choices and in the end - this will not make reserve radically better.
Reservists will still be behind the curve and will still take time to get up the speed. That will always be the case with the reserve.
The real joke should be - who will cover the active duty when reservist get tired of holding the bag with these decisions and start leaving the reserve or worse yet - stop joining? Recruiting - the struggle is real....
This would only further increase my chances at selecting for O5.
Good luck on that! That would be cool! I'm an old dude - switched from enlisted to officer this year after 9 in - If I'm lucky enough to make O-5 I'll be able to say for a long time...
The Navy DCO program is unique in several ways and this may be the biggest one, the amount of training needed to become a commissioned officer in the Navy Reserve via the DCO program vs pretty much every other reserve military component, to include the National Guard . I am not intimately aware of all of the service's training programs but pretty much most direct entry reserve and National Guard types go through OCS/OTS before they are commissioned, with the big exceptions being docs, JAG's and Chaplains along with a handful of others. Navy Reserve DCO's on the other hand raise their right hand and 'voila', you are an officer! The only other service I can find that does something similar is the USCGR and they almost certainly do it on a much smaller scale.
So I can see where the Navy Reserve and the Navy are trying to rationalize initial training for folks directly commissioned into the service without having gone through one of the regular commissioning programs.
That is everyone in the reserves, and except for the job everyone in the military, which is why complaints about extending initial officer training for DCO's will likely fall on deaf ears. The Navy Reserve has plenty of folks trying to get in so this will likely not affect accessions or the quality of them at all.
Nope. Not at all.
Look guys - I'm glad you think you know best. I'm not going to try to change your mind from here on out - but I'm putting out the other side briefly.
You are not going to change my mind, but I'll listen. We are miles apart on this.
All of you are talking about other branches and comparing this DCO program to them as to why we should do this. I joined in the program specifically because it worked for my life and because it is so short.
Those other branches are looking for people too - in fact - several are so desperate for bodies that they have been pulling Navy Reservists for IA deployment since the mid 2000's. They cannot recruit. Army and Marines you are gone a damn year to be a reserve officer. It's crazy guys... The only people that can join that program are recent college grads - it is not a realistic recruiting pipeline for working people and reservists.
I'll be candid - I love the Marine Corp, love Rangers, love Spec Forces ect... I'd love to be part of that too - but I have life and a civilian job and this DCO program is what works for me to serve. Even as it is now - it is not without challenges.
If I wanted to drop the life I have and chase those other things or active duty - I know how to apply to those programs. I don't need to look at other services and try to say this is what we ought to look like and how we should train because I'm not getting all I dreamed of out of the Navy Reserve program I joined. The program we have works for what we are meant to do. There's room for improvement - sure.
I suspect a lot people want more training and I suspect some of it is driven by expectations that the program has let them down.
I've been around. The program works, and given time - you might just find you ended up with all the training you ever dreamed of and more, but much of it will come on the job.
By all means, try to improve training - but have no disillusion in you minds that we can design training that will actually meet the needs of whatever reservists will be utilized for next. There is only so much that can be done to prepare in advance for mobilization
I even agree reservist lack training - but it's not the DCOIC training they need. There are lots of ways to get new ensigns indoctrinated in the Navy without a 5 weeks school. The enlisted side used to do 6 months of drills then off to a 17 day boot camp and it worked fine. I know too - because it is how I came in.
You are not going to change my mind, but I'll listen. We are miles apart on this.
All of you are talking about other branches and comparing this DCO program to them as to why we should do this. I joined in the program specifically because it worked for my life and because it is so short.
Those other branches are looking for people too - in fact - several are so desperate for bodies that they have been pulling Navy Reservists for IA deployment since the mid 2000's. They cannot recruit. Army and Marines you are gone a damn year to be a reserve officer. It's crazy guys... The only people that can join that program are recent college grads - it is not a realistic recruiting pipeline for working people and reservists.
I'll be candid - I love the Marine Corp, love Rangers, love Spec Forces ect... I'd love to be part of that too - but I have life and a civilian job and this DCO program is what works for me to serve. Even as it is now - it is not without challenges.
If I wanted to drop the life I have and chase those other things or active duty - I know how to apply to those programs. I don't need to look at other services and try to say this is what we ought to look like and how we should train because I'm not getting all I dreamed of out of the Navy Reserve program I joined. The program we have works for what we are meant to do. There's room for improvement - sure.
I suspect a lot people want more training and I suspect some of it is driven by expectations that the program has let them down.
I've been around. The program works, and given time - you might just find you ended up with all the training you ever dreamed of and more, but much of it will come on the job.
By all means, try to improve training - but have no disillusion in you minds that we can design training that will actually meet the needs of whatever reservists will be utilized for next. There is only so much that can be done to prepare in advance for mobilization
I even agree reservist lack training - but it's not the DCOIC training they need. There are lots of ways to get new ensigns indoctrinated in the Navy without a 5 weeks school. The enlisted side used to do 6 months of drills then off to a 17 day boot camp and it worked fine. I know too - because it is how I came in.
D
Deleted member 67144 scul
Guest
At least one nice side effect is the crazy stipulations just to be competitive will probably be reduced if the people thinking everything will just be 2 weeks here or there don't apply. For example regarding competitiveness, years of directly pertinent work experience and skills and holding graduate degrees that arguably contribute little to becoming a good officer in general and in X designator will likely play a smaller role.
This was my experience exploring the IWC: "Don't have 10+ years specifically in cybersecurity? You're completely uncompetitive for IP and CW. Oh you mainly work in software and some hardware? Doesn't count." For comparison, they're willing to send even humanities majors in some cases out of X random university and no work experience to be IPs on the active side. Not exactly mid-career professional white hat hackers.
Though it could be worse. Early last year, Air Force straight up told me they're not sending people to OTS until well into 2020 for most officer AFSCs. I forget if the Air National Guard was part of that, too, and I don't know if they rescinded this policy at some point. That means for people in their late 20s or older, it's either Army, Navy, or Coast Guard for both active and reserve, albeit with a reduced set of designators/MOSs to choose from due to age. And if you're past 32, scratch out the Army except for select MOSs.
Additionally, because the DCO program is so small and specialized within the Navy as a whole, it's a source of confusion. At least in my experience, just getting to DCOIC, especially amid changes to training and such, has been a long fight with lots of tricks and traps. The current changes to the program likely aren't helping. In this respect, consistency of training should be an improvement. Reservist makes very reasonable and sound points, but I also can't help but feel DCOIC is that forgotten middle child that only specific people (ie. DCOs and reserve ORs) seem to know about, whereas OCS/ODS are as prominent and familiar as the Empire State Building and there's no confusion there.
I'd propose that a person selected for commissioning in the Navy Reserve goes to Newport first thing (whether 2, 5, or however many weeks), just as is done with OCS. That way, they can take care of all the initial onboarding and training at a place that is built for it and knock out DCOIC (or whatever it will be called in the future). It's certainly more streamlined and more straight-forward than onboarding at a NOSC where sailors don't necessarily understand how an officer can be gained by a NOSC before going through Newport, or in some cases, don't know you could even join the Navy Reserve directly to begin with (that is, not coming from active duty). It would assuredly reduce the number and degree of headaches in the process.
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bluemarlin04
Well-Known Member
The thing i dont get is why the Navy thinks that prior civilian work experience matters at all. It doesn't. I work with so many reservists that come on orders and tell me "I am a GG-14 in the DIA and have been doing it for xx years"or "I am the SIA at the xxx shop in xxx JIOC". That's great. It means nothing and has no bearing on how you are going to perform supporting Naval forces in this unit. It could matter at a JIOC, but at a tactical level unit? means nothing.
It is really odd too cause no other branch has those kinds of problem. All the other reservists never really bring it up.
It is really odd too cause no other branch has those kinds of problem. All the other reservists never really bring it up.
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