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No more DCOIC?

Reservist

Intelligence Officer
Love you guys - anyone that has read my posts knows I'm not fan of this change. More weeks at ODS for reserve officers is unnecessary in my mind.

All you new guys hot to do ODS/OCS - please don't book a DCOIC slot yet. Give me a couple of weeks to book my slot.

I just got my release from enlistment approved about two weeks ago (September 2019 Board). Just getting to finsel letter and swearing in now. If I don't get a seat at DCOIC - I'll be pissed, but I'll roll with it. Finished my 9th year in the the reserve last week working on my 10th now.

Stick around the reserve a while - you'll get plenty of time for training in the long run. No need for long schools up front.

I'm in for the long haul - so I'll put a smile on and go - but two weeks is enough.
 

bryanteagle6

Well-Known Member
One of the tricks of the trade here is to write orders for a solid date and then modify them later if you get a different date, but-

First you write them with the dates for your guaranteed seat (the DCOIC orders might get funded a few months out, give or take, and when the fund approvers press the button to do that then the NROWS gonkulator does a couple of electronic things and voilà! your orders are finalized a couple minutes later). If you're flexible on dates and a waitlist for a sooner class suddenly pops as an available quota, then you modify those existing orders with just a simple date change.

It takes less time to modify existing orders than it does to create new ones, mostly because all of the same entities that have to look at them see that the original orders were perfectly fine and it's just this one change. So you can see how this can be useful to sidestep the problems with what's called "short fused orders." But be careful what you wish for- it sounds simple but there are one or two glitches that can happen in DTS... and it's almost never easy to unscrew a glitch in DTS, which most importantly means a delay in you getting reimbursed for your plane tickets and other travel expenses. So if your N7 is of the opinion that it's not worth the hassle to write orders for one set of dates while halfway intending to change the dates later, then it's probably in your best interest to listen to what they're telling you and just keep it simple.

(Obviously your personal schedule has to be flexible enough to change from one class date to another, so just make sure you're able to actually do what you're asking to do.)
Knowledge is power! Ha. Thanks!
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Knowledge is power! Ha. Thanks!
No worries.

Something else that might make the answer "no" is if the dates are too far apart or if they change it from one fiscal quarter to another. Higher up they like to use different codes within the order writing system to keep track of where and when money is getting spent. It never hurts to ask for something for yourself or your people (down the road when you're in charge of people), but knowledge is good to understand the method to the madness when you're trying to make a plan.
 

Sculpin

Well-Known Member
Knowledge is power!
Guard it well.

DCOIC appears to be special in that your NOSC writes up the orders. I received a mostly completed requirement that I put the finishing touches on before routing it for approval. This is also the biggest pain point. Maybe there's been policy or procedural changes happening in the last year, or my NOSC is just special, but nothing about my experience of having to depend on the NOSC to take care of matters relating to NROWS and DTS has been simple or straight-forward. They've made and continue to make plenty of small mistakes that each take 1-3 business days to resolve.
 

Hail_HYDRA!

NOSC life!
we will know for sure around july when/if they produce more DCOIC classes or not. But on my end - everything ive read - we are switching!

The better question is if you can select you class or if it comes in your FINSEL like OCS does?!
The latest and greatest from my unit is that the schoolhouse has increased or will be increasing the seat count for DCOIC in this fiscal year. So we have been pressed to go back in find a course with an open slot. Justification for increasing the seats allegedly was due to ODS being the new requirement in FY20. DCOIC will not go away for us folks who would prefer to attend it versus ODS in FY19.
 

Bones

Member
Just a financial thought...with ODS being 5 weeks, does that mean you get full BAH while attending rather than the BAH type II? That would remove the sting somewhat for those having to take an unpaid leave of absence from work.
 

Hair Warrior

New Member
Good question. Probably yes. My only thought is whether they cut you two sets of orders (one on AT money and the other on ADT money) or just one set of orders mixing AT and ADT. Paging @Jim123

Note: Anything over 30 days is only 75% M&IE instead of 100%, but this will only matter for follow-on schooling. At ODS you are provided lodging (obviously) and messing is available & directed.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Good question. Probably yes. My only thought is whether they cut you two sets of orders (one on AT money and the other on ADT money) or just one set of orders mixing AT and ADT. Paging @Jim123
I'm afraid for when it comes to current policy, I'm out of the loop nowadays (retired). So no idea how BAH will work with 5 week ODS.

AT is a good fit for DCOIC because DCOIC is two weeks long. That was a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg thing for policy- you're generally supposed to use your AT first, AT can be up to 29 days long, everybody is basically guaranteed at least 12-14 days of AT each year, so there you go. But with ODS being longer than 29 days, not all of it can be covered by AT. Maybe they'll make "phase I" and "phase II." Some schools are scheduled like that when they're intended for people to take both of them back to back.
 

devilbones

Active Member
Good question. Probably yes. My only thought is whether they cut you two sets of orders (one on AT money and the other on ADT money) or just one set of orders mixing AT and ADT. Paging @Jim123

Note: Anything over 30 days is only 75% M&IE instead of 100%, but this will only matter for follow-on schooling. At ODS you are provided lodging (obviously) and messing is available & directed.
Not sure if this is true anymore:
The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) of 2019 eliminates the flat-rate per diem. The President signed the law on August 13, eliminating the flat-rate per diem method effective August 13. Beginning August 13, the traveler’s per diem transitions to the lodging plus computation method. The lodging plus method reimburses the actual cost of lodging up to the locality lodging rate plus an amount equal to the locality meal and incidental expenses (M&IE) rate. Receipts are required for all lodging under the lodging plus computation method.
 

bryanteagle6

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid for when it comes to current policy, I'm out of the loop nowadays (retired). So no idea how BAH will work with 5 week ODS.

AT is a good fit for DCOIC because DCOIC is two weeks long. That was a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg thing for policy- you're generally supposed to use your AT first, AT can be up to 29 days long, everybody is basically guaranteed at least 12-14 days of AT each year, so there you go. But with ODS being longer than 29 days, not all of it can be covered by AT. Maybe they'll make "phase I" and "phase II." Some schools are scheduled like that when they're intended for people to take both of them back to back.
or maybe they will cut 3 days (or whatever) off of ODS for everyone to make it 29 days
 
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