Status of OC in a ROTC unit/OCS for NROTC Units??

[statesman]

All the feedback from the summer cruises that the mids go on, seem nothing short of a ride in an amusement park. They all come back very motivated and excited, but many of them have not had to lead people.

I think in this case you are misinterpreting the purpose of summer cruise. From my perspective its not to get you to a position where you can run a division, its to put you in a position to understand how a division/squadron/etc is run.

CORTRAMID certainly is a good time (so I hear, I opted out of it) and is generally considered to be where you make your choice on the community that most interests you. Your other cruises build on that experience, but they are just to give Mids a little bit of experience such that they are not going into completely foreign environment come commissioning.

I dont know your personal situation, but we have several Mids at my unit who have more sea time than our E-6 OC's, which may not be a substitute for 7 years in the Navy, but it does give them a different and completely valid perspective.

 

[jus2mch]

When I first got to my ROTC unit I was confused about how the Battalion was organized, and where I fit in. I showed up during the summer and it was a phone muster + don't fail your classes. When the MIDN got back the following semester, I noticed there were a LOT of positions that I thought weren't necessary. I thought, why the hell are there all these pointless jobs. I played the game and kept to the other OC's, but didn't feel like I was really contributing. I went to the XO and said, "Sir what the hell am I supposed to do here?" The XO explained to me that the OC's were integrated into the Unit just like MIDN. He said we were expected to perform, and deal with the ambiguity. It wasn't like all my questions were solved after that conversation with the XO, but I least after that I knew what I was supposed to do. Then I started to realize that the plethora of different jobs was to give everyone some type of experience doing something semi officer like. In the end when you graduate and get to your training command you meet all types of rejects and prodigies from every officer program. No matter which officer program, it really depends on the individual and how much they want to apply themselves. Some people really want it for life, some just want free education, some just want to fly, some want to travel etc... They come from every program. No you're not a MIDN, but you are expected to perform, and deal with the ambiguity. Just think, would I rather be sweating balls on the flight line right now, or marching in circles?

NROTC=Crapped on for 4 years.
USNA= Crapped on and stomped on for one year, then crapped on for 3 more.
OCS= Crapped on , kicked in the face, and punched in the dilch for 13 weeks (or whatever it is).

NROTC+USNA+OCS= Some crap ENS that nobody gives a crap about until they prove themselves worthy.

 

[Scoob]

When you finally check in to your first squadron as an aviator, make sure to find out where the Skipper got his commission. If he was straight-stick NROTC, make sure to let him know how you feel. Good luck.

Or you could be like the guy that announced in his first AOM, "I don't think we should have the AWs taking out trash, b/c I'm a prior and I just don't think its right."

I looked around the wardroom and counted about 12 of us who were also priors. You ain't the first, you won't be the last.

But then I'm the guy who, after being thoroughly delighted upon first witnessing the amount of banter, harrassment, buffoonery, and shit-talking that gets tossed around the wardroom in a fleet squadron, introduced himself in his first AOM with, "I'm LTJG Scoob, and I'd just like to say how disappointed I am to be in such an uptight squadron."

 

[zab1001]

We could (but we shouldn't) have a whole thread about trainwreck "first introductions" at AOMs and Hails.

(Just say your name, where you're from, and tell a joke. that's it. no one cares about you and will not care about you for at least 6 months)

 

[MasterBates]

I remember the "I don't think we should have AWs taking out trash" guy..

He made a great heat shield for me for a while.

 

[Scoob]

I remember the "I don't think we should have AWs taking out trash" guy..

He made a great heat shield for me for a while.

I'd guess that's about the same sentiment Sonic had while standing next to me in our first AOM.

 

[RockyMtnNFO]

I have to interject here. I happen to know OC Herndon personally and he is by no means "that guy". OC Herndon is one of those kind of people that everyone wants to be around and as a result has some of the best natural leadership qualities I have seen in the fleet.

Cool. My bad.

Steve

 

[DanMa1156]

Yes, why?

Just a monument plebes climb to end their plebe year at USNA. Wasn't sure if you were making a joke, were related to the guy, making a reference, or just by total coincidence.

 

[phrogpilot73]

... words ...

On the other side of the coin, you can check into your first squadron and overhear a Cpl on the phone refer to his "Boot Lt".

"Hey Cpl X, where were you in '92?"

"I was 11, Sir."

"I was a PFC. Don't call me Boot."

For the OP - here's the benefit of NROTC vs. OCS. In NROTC, the smart ones become sponges. No, they don't "lead" when they go on their summer cruises, they observe the interaction between Division Officer/LCPO/LPO/Division. They see how the crew reacts to different things. They absorb everything they see so that they are better prepared to lead when they do get to the fleet. OCS doesn't have that luxury. Two different animals, but both that are very effective.

 

[Flyboylance]

Oh, ok.. I have heard of it, but I am not related that I know of.

V/R
OC Herndon

 

[BigIron]

For the OP - here's the benefit of NROTC vs. OCS. In NROTC, the smart ones become sponges. No, they don't "lead" when they go on their summer cruises, they observe the interaction between Division Officer/LCPO/LPO/Division. They see how the crew reacts to different things. They absorb everything they see so that they are better prepared to lead when they do get to the fleet. OCS doesn't have that luxury. Two different animals, but both that are very effective.

+1 for this.

OCS offered the bootcamp experience, but very limited opportunity for "leadership." There is a candidate officer phase for about 2 weeks (it was 10 years ago) at OCS where you have billeted positions and help indoc the newbies, but you are still looked upon as trainees. OCS and NROTC are basically Navy schools that teach you basic skills to be officers. Even if you stand out as the best leader in the class (which is good if you inspire your fellow mids) you still are a student officer and are looked upon as such. You will all graduate the same: ENS.

On the aviation track, the newly minted ENS is still a student in training commands. ENS is expected to have officer like qualities, but ENS will not have many (if any) opportunities to be in leadership roles. ENS gets wings, becomes JG and goes to the FRS where he/she still is a student pilot and is treated as such. The first opportunity for leadership is usually at the first fleet squadron.

Anyway, my thoughts.

 

[seabeescw]

Wow, this is a subject near and dear to me. I completely understand where OC Herndon is coming from. It is a shock to go from being the top dog at your command to just another face in the NROTC unit. But guess what? Once you are surrounded with other top-notch men and women (OC’s and MECEPS) -- the best the fleet has to offer, you really aren’t going to shine by doing the same things you did in the fleet. It’s time to step it up!

It is my strong belief that you will be treated exactly how you allow yourself to be treated. If you are being treated like a mid, take a good look at yourself. Are you doing anything for the Battalion that a bunch of mids aren’t already doing? Are you going above and beyond everyone else in the command like you did before going to Newport? If not, volunteer and ask for leadership billets within the Battalion, no matter how stupid they may seem. I really don’t like when OC’s try to avoid holding leadership positions. If you avoid those billets, of course you will be treated like a piece of crap. Nobody respects a guy who hates the command and wants nothing to do with it. Use your experience and knowledge to guide these mids and take an active role within the unit. BTW, I personally think that the CAPT saying OC’s are the same as mids is pretty jacked up. I think it’s kind of your responsibility to prove him otherwise.

And damnit, midshipmen should go through OCS. Like boot camp, I’m sure the purpose of OCS is not to teach you things to use in the fleet. It is to see who can handle stress and operate effectively under pressure. Come on, some of the mids I know would crack and start crying and drop out within the first week of any type of boot camp setting. Yet they are going to get commissioned and lead people in the most stressful of situations. Many of you know how much people lose their minds and forget their values when put under stress, like in boot camp or out in the field sleeping in the dirt. I think all of us would like to know that our leaders will stay calm under pressure when it really matters and lives are on the line.

 

[Ducky]

And damnit, midshipmen should go through OCS. Like boot camp, I’m sure the purpose of OCS is not to teach you things to use in the fleet. It is to see who can handle stress and operate effectively under pressure. Come on, some of the mids I know would crack and start crying and drop out within the first week of any type of boot camp setting. Yet they are going to get commissioned and lead people in the most stressful of situations. Many of you know how much people lose their minds and forget their values when put under stress, like in boot camp or out in the field sleeping in the dirt. I think all of us would like to know that our leaders will stay calm under pressure when it really matters and lives are on the line.

If the USNA and NROTC is designed to teach people how to be officers, what makes you think OCS is any different being that it produces the exact same end product. So why should someone waste government funds and take two classes on the same subject. Would you take math 101 twice if you passed it the first time.

Additionally, although NROTC was not a continuous high stress environment it had its moments. Having a DI scrutinize you and your work for 4 yrs can be a pain. There were moments I would have rathered the 13 weeks to the finish line.

Finally, as a young MIDN I thought it was crap that Marines went to OCS and the Navy did not; but as it became more clear what the model Naval Officer is, it also became more clear that USNA and NROTC do not need OCS to be great successful officers.

 

[tlord82]

I have posted this opinion before on AW, but I believe the Navy needs to make better use of its summer cruises. OCS might not be the answer, but I have seen or heard of far too many summer cruises (particularly the 1/C cruise) which sound like exotic travel adventures. Not too many of my friends came back talking about the great lesson in leadership or JO/enlisted relationships that they learned while in port at Singapore. The aviation cruises are even worse. Hang around a couple weeks and get a ride or two (from what I observed this past summer in Lemoore). I don't know the proper Navy summer cruise, but how about YP cruises? (I know Canoe U grads are cringing right now)

 

[Scoob]

Well, I for one can attest that my 2/c cruise aboard an SSN was at once a lesson in:
- what makes a good leader
- what makes a bad leader
- why aviation is worth the extra time commitment

It was useful for me, and the Navy at the same time.