I think he's commissioning with you. He's good people when you know him, but as far being abusive to Mids, I have have to admit that he could go either way. He's a little arrogant.
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Status of OC in a ROTC unit/OCS for NROTC Units??
- Thread starter Flyboylance
- Start date
Great word....thats my word for today. I'm flying an out and in and hopefully, my stud isn't a fuckbucket
"Often times you have no idea where an officer was commissioned from and no one really cares either. "
Very good point. I think this point is even more relevant for enlisted folks. I can personally only remember one LT's commissioning source from my prior enlisted days. The only reason I remember was because I asked him why he had a ship wheel above his pocket. He told me he earned it for sailing at USNA.
Very good point. I think this point is even more relevant for enlisted folks. I can personally only remember one LT's commissioning source from my prior enlisted days. The only reason I remember was because I asked him why he had a ship wheel above his pocket. He told me he earned it for sailing at USNA.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Anyone taking bets on if Bunky calls his SNA a fuckbucket today?
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
That's a sucker bet!
I think the big point that's being missed here is that ROTC is less of a place to TEACH midshipmen to be leaders, and more of a place where midshipmen LEARN to be leaders. That is exactly why midshipmen are allowed to run ops in a ROTC unit - there is time available to make mistakes, learn from them, and adjust.
One of the most valuable lessons I learned in a ROTC unit was how to respond when the MOI offered "inputs" to how I was doing things. As a prior, I was used to doing what I was told, how I was told, when I was told. However, he was in fact only offering inputs - not orders - to get me to think about why I was doing things the way I was doing them, evaluate why I chose to do it that way, then make corrections if I felt it necessary - a cornerstone of being an effective MANAGER, which is a very essential skill in being a LEADER as a Naval Officer.
Gunny Imgonnakillyou does not have time in 13 weeks to let you learn how to do shit yourself - he will teach you it by any means necessary and you will like it. Both ways work, both ways are suited to fit the timeline dictated. I don't see a necessity to cross-pollenate the two, particularly in the age of doing more with nothing.
One of the most valuable lessons I learned in a ROTC unit was how to respond when the MOI offered "inputs" to how I was doing things. As a prior, I was used to doing what I was told, how I was told, when I was told. However, he was in fact only offering inputs - not orders - to get me to think about why I was doing things the way I was doing them, evaluate why I chose to do it that way, then make corrections if I felt it necessary - a cornerstone of being an effective MANAGER, which is a very essential skill in being a LEADER as a Naval Officer.
Gunny Imgonnakillyou does not have time in 13 weeks to let you learn how to do shit yourself - he will teach you it by any means necessary and you will like it. Both ways work, both ways are suited to fit the timeline dictated. I don't see a necessity to cross-pollenate the two, particularly in the age of doing more with nothing.
1. This thread has really exploded.
2. As a former OC and a former NROTC instructor, I know where you are coming from. A few thing to keep in mind...You are there to get your degree and get a commission. You are also there to learn some OFFICER leadership skills. Part of what you are going through is an adjustment from being an LPO to being a student. The NROTC is not going to throw you into a leadership billet during your first year. You need to focus on your studies and adjust to the university.
With all that said, you still have a HUGE influence on the MIDN and OC's in your NROTC unit! As a follower, you can still pull MIDN So_and_so aside and teach them leadership. If a MIDN is JACKED UP, then either try to teach them or let your MIDN Chain of Command handle it. If the MIDN is beyond repair, then it might be time to let the Class Advisors know and let them handle it. Believe it or not, your NROTC staff is always evaluating the MIDN and OCs. The staff has tools available to filter out some but not all of the bad apples.
-ea6bflyr
The requirement to attend OCS comment is just silly! If you wanted more pain then you should have attended either the USNA, Citadel, or VMI.
2. As a former OC and a former NROTC instructor, I know where you are coming from. A few thing to keep in mind...You are there to get your degree and get a commission. You are also there to learn some OFFICER leadership skills. Part of what you are going through is an adjustment from being an LPO to being a student. The NROTC is not going to throw you into a leadership billet during your first year. You need to focus on your studies and adjust to the university.
With all that said, you still have a HUGE influence on the MIDN and OC's in your NROTC unit! As a follower, you can still pull MIDN So_and_so aside and teach them leadership. If a MIDN is JACKED UP, then either try to teach them or let your MIDN Chain of Command handle it. If the MIDN is beyond repair, then it might be time to let the Class Advisors know and let them handle it. Believe it or not, your NROTC staff is always evaluating the MIDN and OCs. The staff has tools available to filter out some but not all of the bad apples.
-ea6bflyr
The requirement to attend OCS comment is just silly! If you wanted more pain then you should have attended either the USNA, Citadel, or VMI.
off-topic, but i wanted to share something from a certain Lt.Col. "S" who had graduated from West Point and is now an assistant commandant at Virginia Tech. on hearing my choices (VMI, Citadel and VT) he said the decision was obvious- VT. why? because of a bunch of reasons, but the most interesting/unique was the following:
he said that 80% of the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets (VTCC) takes a commission in military while VMI and Citadel have commission rates of only about 50%. his claim was that VMI, Citadel and VTCC start with prospective cadets who are about equally interested in service, but the difference is that even though life should get easier after taking the commission, after 4 grueling years at vmi/citadel, 30% of the students dont want to have anything to do with the military any more, a 30% he says which is a complete shame, since they would have made good officers and which at VTCC, that corresponding 30% goes on into the service (because VTCC is less grueling).
so this is someone who has been there (USMA) done it, and doesn't believe that good officers necessarily need more "pain" in their training.
(by the way, for an opposite opinion, i told what Lt. Col. "S" said to someone who graduated from VMI and spent 20+ yrs in the army, and he said it was complete B***S***. LOL!)
First of all, You are reading too far into what the original post was supposed to be about. It was for OC's at NROTC units not to believe everything they hear, and to do some research. I have been doing everything that has been humanly possible since I came to this NROTC unit. Ask any of our mids. They will tell you. I have held positions in the unit as well as leading PT and helping with advice and doing alot of learning as well. So before you criticize me for not doing something. You better get your facts straight. I did not come in here acusing anyone of anything. SOME units are not doing it right, some are. I am trying to help those who are not being treated correctly, and I have gotten alot of private messages from those people.
V/R
OC Herndon
1. This thread has really exploded.
2. As a former OC and a former NROTC instructor, I know where you are coming from. A few thing to keep in mind...You are there to get your degree and get a commission. You are also there to learn some OFFICER leadership skills. Part of what you are going through is an adjustment from being an LPO to being a student. The NROTC is not going to throw you into a leadership billet during your first year. You need to focus on your studies and adjust to the university.
With all that said, you still have a HUGE influence on the MIDN and OC's in your NROTC unit! As a follower, you can still pull MIDN So_and_so aside and teach them leadership. If a MIDN is JACKED UP, then either try to teach them or let your MIDN Chain of Command handle it. If the MIDN is beyond repair, then it might be time to let the Class Advisors know and let them handle it. Believe it or not, your NROTC staff is always evaluating the MIDN and OCs. The staff has tools available to filter out some but not all of the bad apples.
-ea6bflyr
The requirement to attend OCS comment is just silly! If you wanted more pain then you should have attended either the USNA, Citadel, or VMI.
Great words of wisdom..
I think FMRAM says it well, giving a very good perspective on where an OC's place should be in the grand scheme that is an NROTC unit. I also have the added benefit of actually serving with FMRAM in a squadron, so while I have some reservations about applying the bolded part to him.....
Reservations? Sir, don't make me dig up your interview sheet and post the glowing comments about me.
BlackBearHockey
go blue...
I'm surprised nobody has delved into why an OC doesn't get to keep their enlisted rank compared to a MECEP. At our unit, we have three great OCs, all of which come from varying Naval backgrounds. They have integrated well and offered a tremendous amount of input and experience.
We also have four outstanding MECEPs, who have integrated well and offered a tremendous amount of input and experience.
But... there's something about seeing three chevrons and a rocker on a sleeve compared to a star on a shoulder board. The MECEPs definitely are more active in unit operations, though some specifically deal with Marine options only. However, I do feel they generally command more of a presence. If I were to ask any OC or MECEP a question, without hesitation either would do their best to help me out. However, at times I'm pretty sure everyone sees the MECEPs as part of the staff whereas the OCs get integrated within the MIDN.
I'm not saying either way is the best way. I do, however, appreciate when the command uses them to garner the MIDN's interest in Naval affairs and when they're available to talk with.
I view NROTC as a catalyst that will allow me to transition into Naval life as easily as possible. Because I'm not getting "hands-on" training aside from summer cruises, I use the staff and OC's to see how people lead (successfully or not, though luckily the former with my unit). The four years spent at an NROTC unit should make someone superior in managerial skills, something that won't make up an entire officer, but will play a tremendous part in that officer's success. That type of management is also teased out in the four years spent at college.
I understand that as an Ensign I will know very little. I'll show up to API knowing very little about aeronautics, I'll show up to primary knowing very little about tactical flying, and I'll show up to a squadron knowing very little in the grand scheme of how shit works. (Maybe this post will highlight my vast amount of lack of knowledge)
But, at least with NROTC, I'll know how to act like a Naval Officer should. Eventually (hopefully) I'll learn how to fly, and I'm pretty sure everyone understands that I won't know how to do that on day 1. But, they should expect that I show up willing to lead, willing to learn, and willing to perform, something I think NROTC does an outstanding job of preparing Ensigns to do.
For those who have strong leadership backgrounds, there is a lot of bullshit that is less than enjoyable. But it's there for a reason, because there's the 18 year old kid who's never played on a sports team and has no idea of any sort of command hierarchy and the intangibles associated with leadership. That person's four years will be much different than the OC or the non traditional student.
/.02, off to watch the Flyers.
We also have four outstanding MECEPs, who have integrated well and offered a tremendous amount of input and experience.
But... there's something about seeing three chevrons and a rocker on a sleeve compared to a star on a shoulder board. The MECEPs definitely are more active in unit operations, though some specifically deal with Marine options only. However, I do feel they generally command more of a presence. If I were to ask any OC or MECEP a question, without hesitation either would do their best to help me out. However, at times I'm pretty sure everyone sees the MECEPs as part of the staff whereas the OCs get integrated within the MIDN.
I'm not saying either way is the best way. I do, however, appreciate when the command uses them to garner the MIDN's interest in Naval affairs and when they're available to talk with.
I view NROTC as a catalyst that will allow me to transition into Naval life as easily as possible. Because I'm not getting "hands-on" training aside from summer cruises, I use the staff and OC's to see how people lead (successfully or not, though luckily the former with my unit). The four years spent at an NROTC unit should make someone superior in managerial skills, something that won't make up an entire officer, but will play a tremendous part in that officer's success. That type of management is also teased out in the four years spent at college.
I understand that as an Ensign I will know very little. I'll show up to API knowing very little about aeronautics, I'll show up to primary knowing very little about tactical flying, and I'll show up to a squadron knowing very little in the grand scheme of how shit works. (Maybe this post will highlight my vast amount of lack of knowledge)
But, at least with NROTC, I'll know how to act like a Naval Officer should. Eventually (hopefully) I'll learn how to fly, and I'm pretty sure everyone understands that I won't know how to do that on day 1. But, they should expect that I show up willing to lead, willing to learn, and willing to perform, something I think NROTC does an outstanding job of preparing Ensigns to do.
For those who have strong leadership backgrounds, there is a lot of bullshit that is less than enjoyable. But it's there for a reason, because there's the 18 year old kid who's never played on a sports team and has no idea of any sort of command hierarchy and the intangibles associated with leadership. That person's four years will be much different than the OC or the non traditional student.
/.02, off to watch the Flyers.
Actally, the way it works is: by the time you leave ROTC, you'll have gotten really good at being a midshipman. After commissioning is where you start learning how to be a Naval Officer. Scratch that, after you report to your fleet squadron is when you really start learning how to be a Naval Officer.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
So does this mean I can resume being a hooligan?
(taking COs parking spot, wandering in late, etc)
(taking COs parking spot, wandering in late, etc)