There’s a URL LT here (LCDR select if it matters) that had the great pleasure of being a PO3 twice.
Yeah. The exception that proves the rule.
Why is there so much support for folks who fucked up career-wise?
It's not like this dude couldn't land a jet on a boat at night and had to find a new career. He broke the law.
Is someone who broke the law worth it, compared to others who didn't?
There are instances of NJP for homosexual conduct that should not apply anymore. But I assume this isn't the case.
So why are so many people here (who, in the civilian world wouldn't accept it) suddenly accepting of someone who broke the law?
What are you talking about? Are you seriously comparing NJP to a civil or criminal penalty?
For one- when you break the law you’re afforded rights which you aren’t when you’re NJPd.
Second, The standards of evidence aren’t nearly the same.
Third, you can get double jeopardy with being both NJPd and breaking a law. They aren’t remotely the same.
And I dunno where you work but 99 percent of employers don’t give a shit about your off time except maybe airline pilots or first responders.
Half the lawyers I work with have DUIs and are complete Coke heads and prob make 3 times as much as an O6 while in their thirties.
If I got a DUI I wouldn’t even tell my work and if I did theyd ask me why I even told them and would call me dumb.
In my civilian job if I got a DUI I would lose my security clearance, which I would be fire for.
Lawyers are disbarred, Doctors lose their license to practice, Pilots lose their certificates.
They all get fired for it.
I suppose a bagger at Walmart might not get fired for being a meth head.
There is a standard of conduct that one is expected to uphold in their position.
By this logic we should keep people in jobs they are incapable of doing just because they are nice.Yeah. The exception that proves the rule.
Why is there so much support for folks who fucked up career-wise?
It's not like this dude couldn't land a jet on a boat at night and had to find a new career. He broke the law.
Is someone who broke the law worth it, compared to others who didn't?
There are instances of NJP for homosexual conduct that should not apply anymore. But I assume this isn't the case.
So why are so many people here (who, in the civilian world wouldn't accept it) suddenly accepting of someone who broke the law?
yea and you know the difference?
for a lawyer to be disbarred or a doctor to lose their license they have to go through hearings and a criminal process for it to even be considered. Then if convicted they have to go through more hearings from panels to determine if the license should be pulled.
and then, here’s the real kicker, they can regain it after suspension.
NJPs aren’t anything like that and it’s literally one person punishing an individual with weak standards of evidence and zero due process.
And then, by your logic and others, said individual should never have a chance to come back from it.
And I don’t know where you work but a lot of places don’t care at all about your criminal or background as long as you aren’t stealing money from them.
By this logic we should keep people in jobs they are incapable of doing just because they are nice.
Being nice doesn't mean you can land on the boat at night just like being "bad" doesn't mean you can't.
Not a great comparison.
I just don't think it should be a career ender. I watched pretty much every JO I worked with drink and drive. None of them were caught.Yeah. The exception that proves the rule.
Why is there so much support for folks who fucked up career-wise?
It's not like this dude couldn't land a jet on a boat at night and had to find a new career. He broke the law.
Is someone who broke the law worth it, compared to others who didn't?
There are instances of NJP for homosexual conduct that should not apply anymore. But I assume this isn't the case.
So why are so many people here (who, in the civilian world wouldn't accept it) suddenly accepting of someone who broke the law?
This argument has devolved into creating two mythical creatures because people didn't like Brett's answer:I've always thought of NJP as a minor infraction. You get punished and life moves on. In my opinion, the Navy should give you a chance to recover. I don't see how it is beneficial to hold a NJP over someone for the rest of their entire career. There's plenty of people who haven't screwed up but suck at their job. I'll take the top performer.
Your perception of NJP and the naval justice system needs some refining. Unless you're underway, the individual has the right to bump it up to a court martial, where all the normal rules of evidence and due process apply. Even underway, you can appeal to the SCMCA post NJP. In general terms, the outcome of NJP is going to be preferable to CM, but if the individual truly feels that they've been wrongly accused, or being unfairly targeted by their CO, they have options. In most scenarios, a military member essentially has all the same rights as a civilian when it comes to disposing of a misconduct case.NJPs aren’t anything like that and it’s literally one person punishing an individual with weak standards of evidence and zero due process.
I've stated multiple times that I am discussing events that happened in the past and the individual proved they learned a lesson and continued to perform.Neither the 'red' or 'blue' sailor is likely to be selected for a commissioning program because, contrary to the anecdotal claims in this thread, there are plenty of EPs in the fleet who didn't go to NJP in the last 36 months. If the 'red' sailor continues his/her performance and learns from his/her experiences, in three years they can apply and will likely get accepted.
Know what happened to the last guy I saw try the CM route?Your perception of NJP and the naval justice system needs some refining. Unless you're underway, the individual has the right to bump it up to a court martial, where all the normal rules of evidence and due process apply. Even underway, you can appeal to the SCMCA post NJP. In general terms, the outcome of NJP is going to be preferable to CM, but if the individual truly feels that they've been wrongly accused, or being unfairly targeted by their CO, they have options. In most scenarios, a military member essentially has all the same rights as a civilian when it comes to disposing of a misconduct case.