MIA A4sForever?

[HeloBubba]

I'm gonna stand up as one of the few who didn't have a problem with his "persona" here on Air Warriors. He is what he is and the the truths he delivered, no matter how they were packaged or if they rubbed you the wrong way, were still valuable as truths.

Plus, you are also forgetting the entertainment value that was in it...at least for us lurkers....

 

[darrylcn]

Maybe something happened to him on the medical side?
Stranger things happen....to the elderly among us.

Hey East, I just noticed that you used my flight glove pic as your sig... Heheh I'm moving up here slightly..

 

[Fog]

The fact that we are still talking about A4's is silly but maybe it's fun. I'm not so kind as others....A4's was an ass with a tremendous over inflated ego and brought his ills on himself. We have others here who have been there done that, like RLSO mentions, Catmando, BlkPony, BB, etc, who are fantastic. Those who have nothing to prove don't have these ego issues. Every notice how the really tough guys in life don't act tough??

IMHO, A4s was mostly upset w/ the wussification of Naval Air that has transpired since Tailhook '91. Rightly or wrongly, he seemed to take it on himself to keep younger guys from becoming PC wussies to the detriment of the legacy of Naval Aviation. Many of you guys may think him a cultural dinosaur, but I tell you true, 40 years ago he was mainstream Naval Air. He wasn't the final word on all subjects in my mind, but I always respected his views and think this board is greatly diminished by his absence. I hope he'll come back: I miss ol Grandpa Pettibones!

 

[MasterBates]

I had a take similar to Fog on this.

 

[BlkPny]

I probably don't have the experience most of you guys have, and probably didn't have the adventures most of you are having, but I feel bad for you for the changes in Naval Aviation. The camaraderie, the freedom, the lack of stifling restrictions was what we most enjoyed. In VT-land, we had beer musters at the squadron or in the area in front of the BOQ to celebrate solos and carrier quals. In the RAG we all went to Mexico while doing bombs and rockets at Yuma. While in VN, we all took R&R, a 7-day trip, another 7-day trip, and a jungle survival class in the Philipines (that no one attended), and it was all basket leave, never charged against us. At the survival school, after we had been sending all pilots there for two years, a guy actually went, and the instructors said they had never heard of our squadron.

When we had visitors, be they Admirals, reporters, Aussies, SEALs, civilians, or other pilots, we'd take them for a ride. Anytime we had an empty back seat, we'd take one of our enlisted guys. We always had targets, and we always received clearance to shoot.

You guys talk about the "command attitude" of each type of squadron. Our JO's set the "command attitude". We had the VAL-4 Head-Up-And-Locked award that we presented to the senior officer (usually) who made the stupidest mistake, and the CO and XO were not excluded. It became an honor to be so marked, and it was given and taken in good spirits.

I tell these things to my daughter and my son, and they can't quite comprehend it. Obviously, things have changed, and we can't change them back. But remember how it was, and try your best to make new traditions and adventure.

That's what A4s was trying to tell you.

 

[Flash]

As many might have noticed I don't mind debating others here on the forum from time to time, especially A4s......but when my competency and motivation to serve is repeatedly and pointedly questioned/disparaged/belittled among many other personal attacks, I don't care how many hours your ass sat in a cockpit, airline or military, that's crossing a line that no amount of experience can excuse. And as others pointed out it wasn't like I was the only one on the receiving end of some of his vitriol. His experience and service deserve the utmost respect and I gladly give that to him but personal attacks on fellow officers and aviators because they disagree with you on politics, religion or the general state of the Navy? On the internets? Seriously?

I gave as good as I got but I harbor no ill will towards the man, how could I? I don't know him and he doesn't know me contrary to his occasional assertions. I wish him the best in his well-earned retirement.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Anytime we had an empty back seat, we'd take one of our enlisted guys.

It's funny that I post this given my attitude 5 years ago when I was a clueless mid on 1/c aviation ashore cruise, and I think zab destroyed me mercilessly at the time, but I have now seen the light. Sucks to watch MIDN who have given nothing to Naval Air (yet) bag flight after flight in the trunk of a Hornet, while the extraordinary PC's, airframers, powerliners, etc can hardly even finagle a T-34 ride for being sailor of the qtr. I would love to have the opportunity to give one of these hard chargers a motivating ride, stick time included, but nobody is doing it these days.......no money, no spare flight hours, nothing....

@ Flash, I'm glad you have stuck it out here......makes me happy to see senior guys that share my perspective on things

 

[jt71582]

I'm flying in the wrong era, but I'm looking forward to the opportunity to create my own. We JO's owe it to our NAVAIR to uphold traditions and create our own. It's what sets us apart. That's what I took from A4s. He was a bit crass, but he brought a lot to the table.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I'm flying in the wrong era, but I'm looking forward to the opportunity to create my own. We JO's owe it to our NAVAIR to uphold traditions and create our own. It's what sets us apart. That's what I took from A4s. He was a bit crass, but he brought a lot to the table.

I can't remember the last time I didn't hear a fart or gay joke at work, didn't talk about big ass titties before a brief, didn't have a beer in the squadron bar at COB on fri, and didn't hate on anyone and everyone that doesn't fly a low bypass turbofan single seat jet......so I'd say that the spirit is still alive and well in some places. Difference is that we have like 3 girls total who are mostly all cool in my community....PC or not, thats the root of the issue.

 

[jt71582]

Concur. PC is killing me.

 

[jtmedli]

It's funny that I post this given my attitude 5 years ago when I was a clueless mid on 1/c aviation ashore cruise, and I think zab destroyed me mercilessly at the time, but I have now seen the light. Sucks to watch MIDN who have given nothing to Naval Air (yet) bag flight after flight in the trunk of a Hornet, while the extraordinary PC's, airframers, powerliners, etc can hardly even finagle a T-34 ride for being sailor of the qtr. I would love to have the opportunity to give one of these hard chargers a motivating ride, stick time included, but nobody is doing it these days.......no money, no spare flight hours, nothing....

@ Flash, I'm glad you have stuck it out here......makes me happy to see senior guys that share my perspective on things

Sad, but true. If anyone deserves a ride in the backseat of a hornet then it's the guys who have been turning wrenches on the things for the last 4+ years.

 

[Catmando]

I probably don't have the experience most of you guys have, and probably didn't have the adventures most of you are having, but I feel bad for you for the changes in Naval Aviation. The camaraderie, the freedom, the lack of stifling restrictions was what we most enjoyed. In VT-land, we had beer musters at the squadron or in the area in front of the BOQ to celebrate solos and carrier quals. In the RAG we all went to Mexico while doing bombs and rockets at Yuma. While in VN, we all took R&R, a 7-day trip, another 7-day trip, and a jungle survival class in the Philipines (that no one attended), and it was all basket leave, never charged against us. At the survival school, after we had been sending all pilots there for two years, a guy actually went, and the instructors said they had never heard of our squadron.

When we had visitors, be they Admirals, reporters, Aussies, SEALs, civilians, or other pilots, we'd take them for a ride. Anytime we had an empty back seat, we'd take one of our enlisted guys. We always had targets, and we always received clearance to shoot.

You guys talk about the "command attitude" of each type of squadron. Our JO's set the "command attitude". We had the VAL-4 Head-Up-And-Locked award that we presented to the senior officer (usually) who made the stupidest mistake, and the CO and XO were not excluded. It became an honor to be so marked, and it was given and taken in good spirits.

I tell these things to my daughter and my son, and they can't quite comprehend it. Obviously, things have changed, and we can't change them back. But remember how it was, and try your best to make new traditions and adventure.

That's what A4s was trying to tell you.

I have tried to stay out of this A4sforever thread, but BlkPny's post brings me out. But first, this:

I do not know BlkPny personally. But I do know – and all of you should know - his Navy VAL-4 Squadron, along with HAL-3 and HC-7 were the most amazing, highly decorated, and beyond belief heroic airborne units of the war. As everyone knew at the time through to today. Deservedly so! But I digress....

A4sForever is the reason I originally posted on this site. I initially thought he was a blowhard phony with his bold print and bombastic posts. So I lay in the weeds for a month, hoping to find cracks in his story and to expose him as a phony wannabee. 0bviously, he turned out to be the real deal and more.

Although I do not know him personally, we share many of the same experiences and know many mutual acquaintances. We also share many of the same opinions - but not all. Thus although we often participated in some fun, back and forth banter, I also avoided pissing him off.... as I think he did me.... because we both had some diverse but strong opinions that would eventually just blow up!

While I didn't agree with all of his opinions and forum tactics, I miss him and his valuable input. His viewpoint was always special, regardless of his being disagreeable, non- PC, or even with occasional happy feet. He did add a facet and a history that is unfortunately disappearing in Naval Aviation. For better or worse.

Bottom line: He was/is a true and experienced warrior and Naval Aviator. Regardless of his web board presence, I think you would want to fly with him in combat ahead of most others, when bad guys are really trying to kill you.

Thus I think, as Manfred von Richthofensaid: "Anything else is rubbish!"

 

[CAMike]

Sad, but true. If anyone deserves a ride in the backseat of a hornet then it's the guys who have been turning wrenches on the things for the last 4+ years.

Concur. We should do special things for our best performing folks... except one. There's always "that guy" right? In the spirit of "stirring the PC pot" I submit a clip where the Gay person is smarter than our Navy man Jose and is probably why some people weep for the future... . Carry on thread divert from unknown DLRP.

 

[Pugs]

Sad, but true. If anyone deserves a ride in the backseat of a hornet then it's the guys who have been turning wrenches on the things for the last 4+ years.

It took us a long time to get the "airborn troubleshooter" program back in to VAQ in the early 90's and it paid off in spades. We got to get our high performers a chance to see what their hard work looked like and reward it. In addition, it saved us a whole lot of time when we broke a jet on the road. One AD and a starter motor in the birdcage and you saved yourself a TC-4 (look that one up youngsters ) or NALO flight. Two of my troops finished their degrees at the local college and went to AOCS motivated by their flights. They both said it was life changing for them.

The reward flights is something the USAF does much better than us.

 

[jollygreen07]

you saved yourself a TC-4 (look that one up youngsters )

Converted G-1's they used to train A-6 B/Ns, right? My dad was the first Marine to log 1k hours in a TC-4 back in the 70's.