[GUN] 357 or 45?

[Lawman]

I think my "Guns to own" list just got a little longer...

I love a good wheelgun. And Im amazed at just how good they shoot. Plus I love being in the outdoor wilderness, but Im not a fool and theres stuff around here and other places Ive gone just big enough to make me want a big more iron on my hip.

Plus the more and more I shoot my Roommates, the more I just have to have one. Just like the P7, just like the G3, and after this..... Im thinking its gonna be a Savage in .308, because I dont have one... and well we cant have that now can we.

 

[xmid]

"Yeah your gonna want to never do that.... ever. You hold that one up in civil court and it wont matter how right you were, your that crazy nut job that just wanted to see what it would be like to kill somebody."

I didn't to imply that I have thought about using my (NFA registered, legal!) uzi in defense. I actually meant that I dont even really see it as a weapon as such, it is a very expensive, very dangerous toy. It has no value as a weapon to me, other than historical significance and what not, but instead it is something that I own because shooting it puts the biggest grin on my face. I meant that some guns are like that with people. Any one with a .50 BMG probably never intends to put around through flesh, but they own it because when they pull the trigger and feel the barometric pressure in their vicinity change it makes them happy. I have a few black powder pistols, that I also would never consider using in self defense, but they are fun to get out and shoot every once in a while. I meant to say if pulling the trigger and getting a bigger boom makes you happy and it isnt really gonna be a defensive side arm, then go with it!

And yes I have shot a highpoint and a jennings, they are both sh1t. Maybe I should have said there are certain guns that I would only buy for the right price (maybe only 5 bucks or free in some cases), but every gun can call my safe "home." Even the ones that suck can be fun to play around with. I had a walther ppk once that was used and was the worst functioning gun I have ever seen, but it was fun to try to fix it. Maybe its just cause Im a gun nut though...

 

[metro]

Clearly you've never fired a Highpoint or a Jennings.

I second this motion. Particularly the Highpoint. Good grief, I know they're cheap, but COME ON!

 

[Fly Navy]

Why dont you look at the ballistics on both guns. the 357 is much hotter. knock down power is what you want. If you want the badest semi you can get go for the 10mm 690 foot pounds of energy at 25 ft. can you say dead.

"Knock down power" is a farse perpetuated by bad gun magazines. A full power 10mm is quite a cartridge, but good luck finding ammo for cheap. If you can't practice with it, you can't hit something with it, and if you can't hit something with it, it's useless.

The fact of the matter is, virtually all handgun cartridges are "weak", relatively speaking. If 9mm is all you can handle, then go with it. I have a .357 magnum, .45, .40, 9mm, etc etc... I still use my 9mm as my primary go-to gun. I can shoot fastest and most accurate with it. I have confidence in my ammo, my gun, and my ability. That's what counts. You need to hit your target. Winchester Ranger-T 9mm 127gr +P+ ammunition has some of the best real-life street record out there for handgun ammunition.

Besides... ft-lbs isn't a measure of energy... force, yes... energy, no.

No, ft-lbs is a measure of energy. Pounds is a measure of force.

F = ma = mg

m is mass, measured in slugs.
g is gravity, measured in ft/sec/sec
F is force, measured in pounds, or slug-ft/sec/sec if you wish.

E = Fs

F is force, measured in pounds
s is distance, measured in feet
E is energy, measured in lbs-ft or ft-lbs, whatever you prefer (it does make a difference with vectors)

You're probably thinking of Joules, which is the metric measurement of energy, which is just N-m.

I read about a lot of feed problems when the FBI went to 10mm in the early 90's. I assume you own one KLS? Any problems? Since you are punching paper the availability of 10mm might be a pain. You gotta love those cheap 100rd white boxes at walmart... I know they have .45, not sure about .357sig or 10mm. You can't beat 100rds of 9mm for under $10!

Feed problems? Try women and small statured men not being able to handle a full load 10mm. This would cause flinching, poor control, and limp wristing. The round was too powerful and the FBI didn't want to spend money on training, so Smith & Wesson made the .40S&W, a downloaded 10mm essentially.

10mm is a lot of fun, I've shot it. It's a great hunting cartridge and if you have the right ammo and are willing to train with it, a good defensive (offensive?) pistol. But it's expensive and virtually non-existent, except in Glocks and a couple other spread out there.

Anyone have any experience with .40 cal? I like it because it has more power than a 9mm, but not quite as heavy as a .45. Anyone...?]/quote]

Yes, I have a Glock 23 in .40S&W. In all reality, in a full power, good hollowpoint, the difference in energy and results in a 9mm, .40, and .45 load is NEGLIGIBLE. In FMJ, it is a big difference though. My Glock 23 definitely has more perceived/felt recoil than my 1911 and my SIG 9mm. The only thing that has more recoil than it is my .357 Magnum in a full power load. Now THAT is snappy

after shooting both back to back I feel like less of a man

Why? Recoil is fun, but recommending cartridges because it's "manly" is never a good idea. More people have been killed with the "girly" .22LR than any cartridge combined (discounting warfare).

By the way, way cool that you have an NFA Uzi. I'm jealous.

 

[eye_malfunction]

Carried a USP-F .40 as a duty sidearm. I like the cartridge, but it has more felt recoil then the lower velocity .45 or the lighter grain 9mm (not the 147 +P+ stuff). Its a great round, developed out of the whole 10mm idea. One of its best features found for Law Enforcement was that it had the lowest chance of penetrating level IIIa body armor when compaired to other pistol cartridges between .32ACP and .45ACP. Since this is the body armor most police agencys wear when this was discovered it became a nice selling point.

Really .45, .40, 9mm, .38, or any other pistol caliber over .25cal is subtible for self defence, some people just have a need to identify with one caliber more then others. I like to call it the my daddy sindrome, My daddy had a 1911 .45 there for it is the best gun in the world for ______. Really, the best caliber is the one you can shoot the most accurately and consitantly because shot placement wins gun fights, not capacity or bullet weight. Case in point, I carried a .40 cal as a duty weapon because it gave me the best mix of accuracy and power for a full size combat handgun. I carry a 9mm for concealed because it was the weapon I can employ the best in that capacity. And I use a .357 Mag loaded with Semi-jacketed hollow lead nose .38 special in my house gun because thats the jobs they do the best of the ones I have.

As far as the manufacturers war goes, H&K and Glock are both better guns then many of the ones out there they compete with. My beef with Glock is that they are not in the class that they have slowely priced themselves into, Ive seen Glocks for as much as a SIG, they shouldnt be that expensive. And I have an understanding as to just how useless 3 of thier pistols are, one goes *Badadadadada* from a proffesional standpoint.The reason you see a lot of LE agencys using them is because they are very cheap to keep and feed as an agency, Glock can underbid anybody else if they really want to. And they typically send your guys to school for free to get their certificate. Weapons for LE and Government has a lot more to do with Politics and Financial variables then with actually aquiring the absolute better weapon.

Excellent information! Thanks!

 

[squeeze]

My beef with Glock is that they are not in the class that they have slowely priced themselves into, Ive seen Glocks for as much as a SIG, they shouldnt be that expensive.

Anyone who pays new-Sig prices for a Glock is a fucking moron and deserves to get ripped off. I paid $500 for a NIB Glock 23 already outfitted w/ Trijicon sights this past weekend.

 

[eddie]

More people have been killed with the "girly" .22LR than any cartridge combined (discounting warfare).

How?/Why?

 

[E5B]

Why? Recoil is fun, but recommending cartridges because it's "manly" is never a good idea. More people have been killed with the "girly" .22LR than any cartridge combined (discounting warfare).

Little side note on the 22 LR, more animals are poached with 22 LR than any other caliber, specifically deer. Ft-lbs, caliber, bullet type all matter to a certain extent, but NOTHING MATTERS MORE THAN SHOT PLACEMENT!!!


Make sure you get a pistol in a caliber that you can ACCURATELY handle the recoil (especially if one wants it for home or self protection). What good is a pistol if it takes you 2-3 seconds to re-aim and fire (and probably flinch) especially in a multi-agressor scenario?

 

[Fly Navy]

How?/Why?

People treat it as a toy, because it's so "underpowered". No respect. That and it was a favorite for crime for a while due to low prices and easily deformed bullets.

 

[Fly Navy]

Little side note on the 22 LR, more animals are poached with 22 LR than any other caliber, specifically deer. Ft-lbs, caliber, bullet type all matter to a certain extent, but NOTHING MATTERS MORE THAN SHOT PLACEMENT!!!


Make sure you get a pistol in a caliber that you can ACCURATELY handle the recoil (especially if one wants it for home or self protection). What good is a pistol if it takes you 2-3 seconds to re-aim and fire (and probably flinch) especially in a multi-agressor scenario?

Exactly. 100%

 

[A4sForever]

Caliber .22 ---- a favorite of the Mossad ---- and they seem to know what they like .... and who they don't.

 

[xmid]

.22 is also the easiest round to quiet. .22 sub-sonic is barely louder than a pellet gun. I put a roll of tube socks over the end of the barrel of one of my .22's and with sub-sonic rounds you could shoot it inside and the people in the next room probably wouldnt realize it was a gun making noise. I had a friend whos dad claims that when he was growing up they used to shoot at each other with .22's (obviously a bulls1t story!), but it goes to prove how people mis-judge how deadly .22's are.

 

[WheelsUpHeelsUp]

Ok...

So pretty soon, I'm going to invest in a handgun. My dilema: .357 or .45

I'm looking at Sig's 357 or the 1911. I've fired and like both.

If any of you in AW-land own one or the other (or both), I'm looking for input and pro's/cons to each weapon. Also recommendations on other handguns that I might like.

I'll just be using them to fire on the weekends for fun and stress relief and such.

Lots of options if you're just doing it for fun. Can't go wrong with the 45 ACP in the 1911, well, it's been around since 1911 and that says something. I have a Smith 9mm in the closet for the would be bad guy BUT FOR FUN......don't laugh, a honest to God Uberti WALKER .44 black powder. It had the distinction of being the baddest of the bad from 1847 until the 357 Mag in the 1930's I think.
60 grains of BP it makes a HUGE fireball, cannon noise and cuts down as big a tree as a 357 Mag does.
Hey, you said you wanted it for fun, if you don't mind the slow reload, rotten egg fart smell and cleaning......this one IS fun!

 

[Fly Navy]

Lots of options if you're just doing it for fun. Can't go wrong with the 45 ACP in the 1911, well, it's been around since 1911 and that says something. I have a Smith 9mm in the closet for the wouild be bad guy BUT FOR FUN......don't laugh, a honest to God Uberti WALKER .44 black powder. It had the distinction of being the baddest of the bad from 1847 until the 357 Mag in the 1930's I think.
60 grains of BP it makes a HUGE fireball, cannon noise and cuts down as big a tree as a 357 Mag does.
Hey, you said you wanted it for fun, if you don't mind the slow reload, rotten egg fart smell and cleaning......this one IS fun!

Dude nice. I want a 1851 Navy .36. I was looking at them on Cabelas and MidwayUSA. The working replicas are fairly cheap and look fun. Squeeze and I were drooling over them some months ago.

 

[WheelsUpHeelsUp]

Dude nice. I want a 1851 Navy .36. I was looking at them on Cabelas and MidwayUSA. The working replicas are fairly cheap and look fun. Squeeze and I were drooling over them some months ago.

The Navy 36 is a sharp looking weapon BUT Id go bigger. The Walker weighs a whopping 5 lbs and that's a bunch, as much as a Winchester 30/30! A little less weight and bulk would be the New Model (argh) Army in 44 Cal, best looking pistol made to this date IMO and It will still take 40 grains of BP which is still legal deer hunting in some states. The 36 would be a bit light I think that is unless your name is Wild Bill Hickcock....he actually carried TWO 1851 Navy 36's!