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Faith

Why are we here? Because we're here:
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Brett
 
Here is an interesting historical perspective on religion and morality.


The purpose of proceeding historically is to substantiate the claim that morality and religion have been inseparable until very recently, and that our moral vocabulary is still deeply infused with this history.
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raptor10 said:
You know Freud has been pretty much discredited right?
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Common misconception. True, his psychoanalytic methods are no longer the cutting edge in treatment or therapy, but much of his work continues to be the foundation of modern psychology. His ideas about the origins of religious thought are, IMO, among the best explanations I've seen.

Brett
 
I know that I'm late in chiming in on this thread, however I think I'll share my thoughts on the subject. I grew up a strict Seventh-Day Adventist, my father was an ordained minister and pastor for 18 years. I went to Church every Saturday. When I was about 10 years old my father left the church and it was time for me to fingure out things on my own. Here or some of the conclusions I have come to.

I definitely believe in God and consider myself a Christian. I do, however, also believe that many other religions have very valuable things to contribute. Its hard for me to say that there is one "correct" religion, just one that makes the most sense to you given your culture and personal experience. Like others have mentioned here, my belief in God has come more through personal experiences than a detailed reading of the bible. However, given my father's background as a minister (hes now a Daoist/Agnostic along with my brother) I have been able to draw from his extensive study of it. I consider the Bible to be a historical document written to be relevant to a specific society during a specific historical era. I believe many of the writings to be very useful and very truthful, however must be read in context. I also believe that many of the stories and caricatures in the Bible were written as to express an idea, and aren't meant to be taken literally. It is my opinion that in order to truly understand the Bible, you must look at the historical perspective.

As others have stated here, some Christians that I have known have been more judgemental than most. I tried to attend some non-denominational services, only to be told that "Gold wouldn't want you dropping bombs on people" by one of my pastors. Thats very nice that he had an intimate knowledge of God's wishes. Its hard for me to see Christians believe that God will solve all of their problems for them... I believe that God can show you the door, but that you must walk through it. As others have said, you must pay attention to the world around you to see things clearly. This is why I much sooner choose to head out for a backpacking trip in the wilderness than go to church. I think that your relationship with God must be a personal one, and I feel much more enlightened after spending time in Nature than attending service (not to say that attending service can't be constructive, just that I've reached a dead end.)

Many Christians tell me that everything happens for a reason. I disagree with this. I believe that some things happen for a reason, and that some other things just happen. One thing is certain, we grow through hardship. I think that, in the end, the best way to show someone your faith is through your actions.
 
Brett327 said:
Common misconception. True, his psychoanalytic methods are no longer the cutting edge in treatment or therapy, but much of his work continues to be the foundation of modern psychology. His ideas about the origins of religious thought are, IMO, among the best explanations I've seen.

Brett
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Such as? I was under the illusion that neuroscience disproved the majority of Freudianism.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8123-2164886.html
 
raptor10 said:
Such as? I was under the illusion that neuroscience disproved the majority of Freudianism.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8123-2164886.html
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You're going to have to delve a little deeper than the pop-science section of your Sunday paper to understand what we're talking about. If you want to be intellectually honest about it (and it is my expectation that you do), why don't you give my first linked book a read (it's very short), then we can discuss it on its merits. Understanding the psychological underpinnings of religious thought doesn't mean you have to give up being a Christian. Many enlightened theologians would suggest that it helps one appreciate one's own faith more thoroughly.

Brett
 
Brett327 said:
The whole "morality can't exist without religion" argument is completely bogus and has been soundly debunked by many people more articulate than myself. I wasn't going to get involved in this thread because many of you will interpret my views as "religion bashing," but since the OP was asking for differing views and opinions, I think we owe him a counterpoint to all the Christian kumbayah we've seen thus far.

As many of you know, I'm an atheist - have been since I was about 6 or 7. Here's the God's honest truth: I don't understand how anyone with a full understanding and appreciation of the psychological and sociological origins of religious belief, can honestly say they buy into the concept of the supernatural. This leaves the vast majority of people with two options - you're either ignorant, or your delusional (perhaps both).

I know reading substantive academic work is anathema to many of you, but there is so much great stuff out there - some of it by some very smart theologians - about just what it is within Man's nature that creates the need for religious thought. I recommend the following (among others):

Freud
Abe Maslow

That ought to get things rolling.

Oh, and Merry Christmas! :D

Brett
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I used to be religious, but then became atheist, then some shit happened and I started praying, realizing I deep down DID still believe in a god, but I am not a faithful person by any means, so now I am sort of in-between.

I believe there MAY be a creator or ultimate intelligence out there, but I don't have much faith in it is the thing.

I do believe the supernatural, in certain ways, may exist, but I don't believe in the standard Christian stuff.

And the reason for that is because there are simply forces in this universe that we have no real understanding of, for example, the electrical force, light itself, gravity to an extent, quantum mechanics, etc...so maybe there is like "another level" so-to-speak, that can really be explained scientifically, we just lack the knowledge or brainpower to do so right now.

I will still occassionally talk to "God," saying, "Hey God, I have no clue if you're there or not and if you are, I'm not a faithful person because there is no way I will trust someone I don't know personally, but if you ARE there I could use some help...yada yada..." (if some bad stuff is happening).

But otherwise I am just not a religious person. I do like traditional Christian imagery though, like manger scenes, Jesus, etc...

I also do not necessarily believe that if there is an ultimate creator, that when I die, I'll meet it. There could be a creator IMO, but when you die, that's it, you're gone (I really hope this isn't so though as I'd like to see the universe).

I do wonder, though, how in the HELL did this whole universe get created!? There's got to be an answer, whether it's a creator or not, and I unfortunately won't be around to find out :(

I really would like to go check out the other planets in other galaxies and so forth, see a black hole, etc...the universe is so friggin' HUGE!! and so AWESOME (you astronomy folks know what I mean), but even Star Trek and Star Wars never got beyond the galaxy.

Unless aliens come down and share with us they're life-rejuvenation technology, we are screwed on seeing the universe right now :)

I do believe that pretty much all humans have some form of religion or beliefs though:

For Righties, it's usually Christianity

For Lefties, the elitists, and the "sophisticated" academics, it is environmentalism (maternal, loving, Mother Earth, as anyone whose been out at sea, on the side of a mountain, in a rain forest, or lying in the wilderness knows how loving nature is :D), socialism (got be a religious belief when people continue to believe in a system that's killed 100+ million people), and secularism (or maybe moral relativism?), the belief that there is no ultimate morality, that we humans ourselves define morality.
 
For all you folks who wish to "step outside the box" so to speak and maybe get out of your "comfort zone" or whatever other buzzwords you want to attach to your feelings on religion, I suggest watching the movie "Cube". I have a feeling Brett may have seen it. It is a good metaphor as a whole for Atheism/Nihilism.

Oh, and merry Christmas!:)
 
Brett, You're recommending Freud??? the same freud who psychoanalyzed himself and the same freud that psychologist say was crazy and absurd? I dunno if you guys studied psychology but at UC Berkeley, most professors bash on freud.
 
shotcalla10 said:
Brett, You're recommending Freud??? the same freud who psychoanalyzed himself and the same freud that psychologist say was crazy and absurd? I dunno if you guys studied psychology but at UC Berkeley, most professors bash on freud.
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Jesus fucking Christ. If you can't understand the distinctions we're talking about, then you don't belong in this discussion (hint: it goes just a bit past the psych 101 you had at Cal). We're not talking about Freud's merit within modern psychology. We're discussing his ideas about religious thought - more of a philosophical issue than a scientific one. It's not something to be proved or disproved - it's a concept (and an interesting one at that). Read the book, then you can throw spears.

Brett
 
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