USN Cannabidiol (CBD) and the Navy

[DanMa1156]

It's all a ploy for big urine...

cracking up over here!

 

[Pags]

well a lot of beer that is cheap has about 5% ABV, many of the IPA's I have seen on the boards of bars I would go into seemed to be in teens for ABV, now I am not a beer drinker so don't go seeking out beer so this is just from what I happened to see when out with coworkers of family.

back in the 70's THC content was about 3-4%, now it is standard to see 20% THC content and can be up to 30% THC content, that is a huge jump.

I read this as there's a need in the Mj Market for a "session strength" or "lawnmower" varietal. DIPA is nice but sometimes you need something you can drink a few of in a row and not commit yourself to a full day of drunkenness.

 

[Hair Warrior]

^ They already have this. Dispensaries have mad variety.

 

[JTS11]

cracking up over here!

Big Urine is nothing but a jobs program for Meat Gazers.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Big Urine is nothing but a jobs program for Meat Gazers.

Negative. I know from experience that job doesn’t pay anything, and isn’t much to look at.

 

[Pags]

^ They already have this. Dispensaries have mad variety.

Dang, there goes my million dollar idea. As a guy who wasn't into drugs or booze in HS and has been associated with the military/govt since college i have no idea what goes on in the recreational drug market.

 

[HAL Pilot]

The DOD has to follow state laws, too

Not true.

When on federal land, the DoD has to follow federal laws. The DoD my opt to follow state laws but it is not a requirement.

First example, once upon a time my Dad had Ft. DeRussy in Honolulu as one of multiple Hawaii bases under his command. Ft. DeRussy had MPs doing all the policing and the Honolulu Police Department had no jurisdiction on the base. Anything that happened went to the federal magistrate whether the offender was military or civilian. HPD di not patrol the base and if they were involved in any incident they had to have the MPs respond and make the actual arrest. Further state law was no booze in public but you could drink it all you wanted on Ft. DeRussy. This caused a lot of heartache with the local government. Sometime after my Dad left, the Army signed an agreement with Hawaii to give HPD joint jurisdiction on Ft. DeRussy and after a few years of this eventually quit using MPs to patrol it.

Another good example is drinking age although it is not used much anymore. Federal law says the drinking age is 18. State laws say it is 21. The federal government basically made the states change their laws way back when (by withholding highway funds, etc.) while not changing the federal law. This was partially at the request of the military. They wanted to allow military members the ability to still have alcohol in other countries where the age was 18 and since federal laws apply to military outside of the country they didn't want it changed. They also used this to allow 18 to 20 year old military to drink on base with the local commanders permission. They used this in places like San Diego. They would rather the 18-20 year olds drink in the E club on base than go to Tijuana to drink. For years after the state age changed to 21 you could drink on base in the San Diego area at 18.

Currently in Hawaii retailers are not allowed to use non-recyclable or non-easily biodegradable plastic bags (allowable ones have to be approved by the state environmental gurus)and the retailers have to charge anyone who wants a bag, either plastic or paper, a minimum 15 cents per bag fee. It's been this way for at least 3 years. But the Pearl Harbor Commissary is still using those old non-recyclable / non-biodegradable brown plastic bags by the millions and don't charge a dime. A local news once reported on it and the military response was that the commissary was on federal land and therefore subject to federal laws with no state jurisdiction. The commissary's mission was to provide for servicemembers at the lowest cost possible and the state's bag laws would be an unnecessary increased financial burden on military memebrs.

 

[Pags]

Not true.

When on federal land, the DoD has to follow federal laws. The DoD my opt to follow state laws but it is not a requirement.

First example, once upon a time my Dad had Ft. DeRussy in Honolulu as one of multiple Hawaii bases under his command. Ft. DeRussy had MPs doing all the policing and the Honolulu Police Department had no jurisdiction on the base. Anything that happened went to the federal magistrate whether the offender was military or civilian. HPD di not patrol the base and if they were involved in any incident they had to have the MPs respond and make the actual arrest. Further state law was no booze in public but you could drink it all you wanted on Ft. DeRussy. This caused a lot of heartache with the local government. Sometime after my Dad left, the Army signed an agreement with Hawaii to give HPD joint jurisdiction on Ft. DeRussy and after a few years of this eventually quit using MPs to patrol it.

Another good example is drinking age although it is not used much anymore. Federal law says the drinking age is 18. State laws say it is 21. The federal government basically made the states change their laws way back when (by withholding highway funds, etc.) while not changing the federal law. This was partially at the request of the military. They wanted to allow military members the ability to still have alcohol in other countries where the age was 18 and since federal laws apply to military outside of the country they didn't want it changed. They also used this to allow 18 to 20 year old military to drink on base with the local commanders permission. They used this in places like San Diego. They would rather the 18-20 year olds drink in the E club on base than go to Tijuana to drink. For years after the state age changed to 21 you could drink on base in the San Diego area at 18.

Currently in Hawaii retailers are not allowed to use non-recyclable or non-easily biodegradable plastic bags (allowable ones have to be approved by the state environmental gurus)and the retailers have to charge anyone who wants a bag, either plastic or paper, a minimum 15 cents per bag fee. It's been this way for at least 3 years. But the Pearl Harbor Commissary is still using those old non-recyclable / non-biodegradable brown plastic bags by the millions and don't charge a dime. A local news once reported on it and the military response was that the commissary was on federal land and therefore subject to federal laws with no state jurisdiction. The commissary's mission was to provide for servicemembers at the lowest cost possible and the state's bag laws would be an unnecessary increased financial burden on military memebrs.

The SD drinking age thing stayed that way for a long time I think. Guys a few years ahead of me in NROTC would tell us stories of the "gold ole days of CORTRAMID West" when you got to legally drink on base. Wasn't the case when I was there, I guess the world had moved on.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Dang, there goes my million dollar idea. As a guy who wasn't into drugs or booze in HS and has been associated with the military/govt since college i have no idea what goes on in the recreational drug market.

The “new” thing (~5 years old) is edibles that are food industry-grade. They are low dose and someone can take as few or as many as they wish, to adjust their dosage.

I have several friends who live life to the fullest, have too much money and freedom, have no need for a security clearance, and are so far ahead in their careers they ran out of fucks to give.

Also, there are plenty of documentaries on this stuff, and as long as you don’t violate any lawful order/ visit a site on the commander’s no-go list, you can walk into any dispensary and see for yourself.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Not true.

When on federal land, the DoD has to follow federal laws. The DoD my opt to follow state laws but it is not a requirement.

First example, once upon a time my Dad had Ft. DeRussy in Honolulu as one of multiple Hawaii bases under his command. Ft. DeRussy had MPs doing all the policing and the Honolulu Police Department had no jurisdiction on the base. Anything that happened went to the federal magistrate whether the offender was military or civilian. HPD di not patrol the base and if they were involved in any incident they had to have the MPs respond and make the actual arrest. Further state law was no booze in public but you could drink it all you wanted on Ft. DeRussy. This caused a lot of heartache with the local government. Sometime after my Dad left, the Army signed an agreement with Hawaii to give HPD joint jurisdiction on Ft. DeRussy and after a few years of this eventually quit using MPs to patrol it.

Another good example is drinking age although it is not used much anymore. Federal law says the drinking age is 18. State laws say it is 21. The federal government basically made the states change their laws way back when (by withholding highway funds, etc.) while not changing the federal law. This was partially at the request of the military. They wanted to allow military members the ability to still have alcohol in other countries where the age was 18 and since federal laws apply to military outside of the country they didn't want it changed. They also used this to allow 18 to 20 year old military to drink on base with the local commanders permission. They used this in places like San Diego. They would rather the 18-20 year olds drink in the E club on base than go to Tijuana to drink. For years after the state age changed to 21 you could drink on base in the San Diego area at 18.

Currently in Hawaii retailers are not allowed to use non-recyclable or non-easily biodegradable plastic bags (allowable ones have to be approved by the state environmental gurus)and the retailers have to charge anyone who wants a bag, either plastic or paper, a minimum 15 cents per bag fee. It's been this way for at least 3 years. But the Pearl Harbor Commissary is still using those old non-recyclable / non-biodegradable brown plastic bags by the millions and don't charge a dime. A local news once reported on it and the military response was that the commissary was on federal land and therefore subject to federal laws with no state jurisdiction. The commissary's mission was to provide for servicemembers at the lowest cost possible and the state's bag laws would be an unnecessary increased financial burden on military memebrs.

I remember those under 21 days at a few of the SD bases, if I remember right they were not all the same either, 1 was 18 and another was 19.

 

[Brett327]

The SD drinking age thing stayed that way for a long time I think. Guys a few years ahead of me in NROTC would tell us stories of the "gold ole days of CORTRAMID West" when you got to legally drink on base. Wasn't the case when I was there, I guess the world had moved on.

Drinking age in BC is 19, so the young’ uns in Whidbey take full advantage (pre COVID).

 

[Spekkio]

Not true.

When on federal land, the DoD has to follow federal laws. The DoD my opt to follow state laws but it is not a requirement.

I understand that from a technical perspective. I was speaking from a practical / PR perspective.

The odds that a DOD installation lowers the drinking age to 18 and legalizes marijuana before all 50 states do is 0. No GO/FO wants to explain to Congress why a bunch of teenagers are going out in town intoxicated or bringing their products outside the gate when every state sets the drinking age at 21 and most states outlaw marijuana. Or better yet when 18-20 yr old SN Timmy kills someone doing a late night Taco Bell run after getting smashed on his legally acquired substances. The DOD may have lagged behind with the drinking age, but it eventually fell in line. Ditto with cigarettes recently.

The DOD's COVID-19 policies are largely driven by managing the various state restrictions as well.

Your plastic bag example is the exception that proves the rule. And it's not like plastic bags are completely outlawed, the states have essentially put a tax on using them that the federal government hasn't adopted.

 

[BigRed389]

Anecdotally, there are lasting detrimental effects well beyond the proximal high - particularly in chronic users. If that is borne out in the data, that will be extremely difficult to regulate from a DoD policy perspective.

Sure, but it will depend on the nature of the lasting effect. You can certainly find studies of lasting detrimental effects of regular heavy alcohol use as well. Why else does the Navy spend so much effort making resources for Alcohol abuse?

For you guys who do flight physicals, I imagine it'll remain a purely academic discussion much longer, with NAMI able to insert themselves into regulation of its use, even if legalized across federal law and authorized for DOD in general.

I don't care what Airman, Seaman, or LCpl Timmy does in his off time wrt alcohol or pot or whatever have you. But I don't want him high while he's at work (just like most every other job out there).

We can test for alcohol, but I'm not sure that there is an objective test that correlates to inebriation like BAC does.

Yup, nailed it. But we're also probably making this harder than it needs to be.
BAC isn't really an entirely objective test either. To clarify, not everybody is similarly impaired for the same BAC. I've worked with a few functional alcoholics. The numbers we have are based on statistical studies of getting people hammered and seeing what impact it has on them.
The point being, I think there's too much hand wringing over finding the "magic number" that covers everybody for THC levels. Run studies, find what that range is, and for purposes of measuring intoxication levels, know you're running a career risk if you are a chronic THC user. I don't see DOD budging on this even after federal legalization until a roadside test standard is set.

Being able to accurately measure THC levels without the time delay of Big Urine or hair samples is a different problem...

 

[HAL Pilot]

Your plastic bag example is the exception that proves the rule. And it's not like plastic bags are completely outlawed, the states have essentially put a tax on using them that the federal government hasn't adopted.

It is illegal for a business in Hawaii to use the types of plastic bags used in the Pearl Harbor Commissary. It is not illegal for people to use or own them. The Commissary using them is directly violating state law. The customers accepting them is not. Happy?

Do you really have to nitpick and sea lawyer everything that is not 100% in line with your thoughts or statements? Can you ever accept you’re not the fountain of all knowledge?

You really need a new avatar.

 

[Hair Warrior]

The DOD may have lagged behind with the drinking age, but it eventually fell in line. Ditto with cigarettes recently.

Which is why it's entirely plausible that the DoD may eventually fall in line with CBD (not talking about THC).

It was stated earlier (by @Pags maybe?) that the problem is fundamentally with Big Urine. I would extend that decision space to include PEO UPC, the UPC N3/5, and CDR USUPCCOM.