26Jun20 SNA/NFO Board

[subreservist]

I agree...definitely let those that make the decision tell you no!

I figured you received RE waiver before. Age is different, as they may not actually entertain a waiver at all.

So before you commit to taking the exam again or any other steps, have your OR (or you can do it yourself) contact the Aviation OCM to get that answer first.

 

[coolhand_505]

I agree...definitely let those that make the decision tell you no!

I figured you received RE waiver before. Age is different, as they may not actually entertain a waiver at all.

So before you commit to taking the exam again or any other steps, have your OR (or you can do it yourself) contact the Aviation OCM to get that answer first.

The guidance from above is allowing age waivers. Whats crazy is that they are doing it case by case (IE there is no cap for age if you are prior service). Thanks for good guidance. Not sure if any of you follow C.W. Lemoine...but yes, Make Them Tell you No. Also I left a message for the Aviation OCM

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Ok,

Let me address multiple responses here.

Yes, I was young when I applied before (26-28). This didn't require a waiver but I also had to put in a waiver package for my discharge last time which was approved.

I think subreservist nailed the take here. I'm starting from scratch and will probably have to re-do OCS. Its ok -- the Marines have prepared me well during Enlisted boot camp, and OCS, for this contingency.

@subreservist. I'm not sure why they offered me NFO in 2009. My ASTB score was abysmal -- my last score was a 5/6/7. It was my first app after leaving the USMC so I wanted to try a few more to get SNA. Bad call. However in 2015 I took the AFOQT and got 94 for pilot, 90 for nav, and a PICSM of 90. I consider this test harder and longer than the ASTB but I studied extremely hard for it. So if i study as hard for the ASTB as I did for this test in 2015 then I think I've got a good shot at improving my score. The only reason I tried to go ANG/USAFR is for better family lifestyle and because I was aged out for Navy. I've always preferred Naval Aviation over any other path but at that point I was too old to apply anyway until these new guidelines came out. So a couple zoomie interviews later and I stumbled upon the reg myself that the USAF will not waiver a General Discharge Under Honorable (the recruiters were unaware of this --except the one from the A-10 unit in Idaho -- he finally gave me the correct gauge). So I went on two boards with the NDRB, the second one the officer panel actually did a telephone board with me and voted 5-0 to have my discharge upgraded to honorable, Unfortunately the SRA (Civilian Review that was NOT present at the board) shot it down. Two more boards with BCNR yielded no better results. So no more apps since 2017. Worked on civilian flight training after that and finished up my ratings thinking, truly, my ship had sailed. Until last October ...

So yes, I will require two waivers -- however I'm still putting in -- and which of you wouldn't still give it a shot even if it was a long shot? I mean this path does mean a lot to us right? Yes it does. So get behind me dudes --- I'm certainly not going anywhere -- and I certainly don't have anything to loose. I'm taking a short pause from working on my CFI to study my Barron's guide for a month, dropping some weight, and then I'm off to the races. If it doesn't work out I go to plan B, which is flying Kingairs into IMC in a couple years.

I have my former T-34 instructor, a retired one star, and 3 O-3's and O-4's writing LOR's for me.

NRC deals with a lot of applications, sometimes mistakes are made in the selection process, and they may not have paid attention to the entire application, in general and very much so in 2009 they took a quick look at ASTB and often gave a pro Y, there were several cases of people getting a Y then it became a N when errors were discovered, mind you this was a small number of the overall submissions.

NRC has been consistent over the years on one thing, prior commissioned officer cannot go through OCS no matter how far back it was, there is another path, sometimes they need to figure out how to make the path work if they decide it is possible.

I believe you have 2 big hurdles and the first is age, yes it can be waived but rarely is and when it is often it is due to a few months over or for someone that is over the age due to active duty time. The other is also in the PA with is item 6.d. this is what the recruiters should have caught and that is why I said to get guidance via the OCM, which you have left a message for.

 

[coolhand_505]

NRC deals with a lot of applications, sometimes mistakes are made in the selection process, and they may not have paid attention to the entire application, in general and very much so in 2009 they took a quick look at ASTB and often gave a pro Y, there were several cases of people getting a Y then it became a N when errors were discovered, mind you this was a small number of the overall submissions.

NRC has been consistent over the years on one thing, prior commissioned officer cannot go through OCS no matter how far back it was, there is another path, sometimes they need to figure out how to make the path work if they decide it is possible.

I believe you have 2 big hurdles and the first is age, yes it can be waived but rarely is and when it is often it is due to a few months over or for someone that is over the age due to active duty time. The other is also in the PA with is item 6.d. this is what the recruiters should have caught and that is why I said to get guidance via the OCM, which you have left a message for.

Roger that and I appreciate the info. But you also understand my proclivity I'm sure towards making the Officer Selection Board tell me no rather than self-eliminating, correct?. The Navy is short of pilots -- a recent report suggests 1 in 4 cockpits are empty at the moment,., and while I don't believe they are changing the process, I have heard from multiple sources (recruiters, pilots, etc.) that the age waiver is easier to get right now.

I'm ok just applying and letting the chips fall where they may. And if I hear from someone or can get a hold of someone over at the Aviation OCM then I'm all for it.

Edit: My active duty time was only 12 months -- so I should still be ok there

 

[coolhand_505]

Roger that and I appreciate the info. But you also understand my proclivity I'm sure towards making the Officer Selection Board tell me no rather than self-eliminating, correct?. The Navy is short of pilots -- a recent report suggests 1 in 4 cockpits are empty at the moment,., and while I don't believe they are changing the process, I have heard from multiple sources (recruiters, pilots, etc.) that the age waiver is easier to get right now.

I'm ok just applying and letting the chips fall where they may. And if I hear from someone or can get a hold of someone over at the Aviation OCM then I'm all for it.

Edit: My active duty time was only 12 months -- so I should still be ok there

Ok so for those following I spoke with my recruiter and the process is as such:

1. Get selected for SNA by the Officer Selection Board for Aviation
2. Recruiter contacts Aviation OCM AFTER selection and has them reinstate me as a 2nd Lt. and then lateral transfers me from USMC TO USN as an Ensign. This is where Chesty Puller will roll over in his grave ... however I gotta do what I gotta do -- sorry Chesty -- lol.

// confusion ended. Wish me luck and have a fine Navy day.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

The Navy is short of pilots -- a recent report suggests 1 in 4 cockpits are empty at the moment,., and while I don't believe they are changing the process, I have heard from multiple sources (recruiters, pilots, etc.) that the age waiver is easier to get right now.

not for new accessions, you are confusing retention and accessions, the USN has many applying and being denied and all a waiver does is allow you to be seen by the board, many have obtained waivers and then been denied.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Ok so for those following I spoke with my recruiter and the process is as such:

1. Get selected for SNA by the Officer Selection Board for Aviation
2. Recruiter contacts Aviation OCM AFTER selection and has them reinstate me as a 2nd Lt. and then lateral transfers me from USMC TO USN as an Ensign. This is where Chesty Puller will roll over in his grave ... however I gotta do what I gotta do -- sorry Chesty -- lol.

// confusion ended. Wish me luck and have a fine Navy day.

That is an outright violation of the PA given what 6.b. says in the PA, you need to hear what the Aviation OCM says, basically without the ok of the aviation OCM the NRD processor can say no, the NRC processor can say no, the NRC PM can say no, the NRC director of OCS accessions can say no. If you get the Aviation OCM's ok to do this then you don't have to worry about any of them saying no, since once one of them says no you will have to jump through more hoops (aviation OCM).

If you see all paths need to begin with the aviation OCM.

 

[Ancalagon]

That is an outright violation of the PA given what 6.b. says in the PA, you need to hear what the Aviation OCM says, basically without the ok of the aviation OCM the NRD processor can say no, the NRC processor can say no, the NRC PM can say no, the NRC director of OCS accessions can say no. If you get the Aviation OCM's ok to do this then you don't have to worry about any of them saying no, since once one of them says no you will have to jump through more hoops (aviation OCM).

If you see all paths need to begin with the aviation OCM.

Are exceptions to the PA ever made or allowed?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Are exceptions to the PA ever made or allowed?

In some areas yes, however the exceptions they would be doing would be in the qualification sections, the sources section is there to ensure people stay in their swim lane and that is the hard and fast rules.

 

[coolhand_505]

I understand. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[coolhand_505]

The recruiters won’t contact OCM unless package is done

 

[exNavyOffRec]

The recruiters won’t contact OCM unless package is done

That is because recruiters are essentially never supposed to contact the OCM, it is up to the officer (you) to contact them.

At this point they are just trying to get an application together to get credit for an application submit, whether it just shot down 30 min later or not doesn't matter to them.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

The recruiters won’t contact OCM unless package is done

That is because recruiters are essentially never supposed to contact the OCM, it is up to the officer (you) to contact them.

At this point they are just trying to get an application together to get credit for an application submit, whether it just shot down 30 min later or not doesn't matter to them.

Either yourself or the recruiter can contact the OCM. It would be very embarassing to complete all the paperwork only to get told no, you can't apply.

 

[coolhand_505]

That is because recruiters are essentially never supposed to contact the OCM, it is up to the officer (you) to contact them.

At this point they are just trying to get an application together to get credit for an application submit, whether it just shot down 30 min later or not doesn't matter to them.

I’ll keep trying to get in touch with them — I haven’t got a call back yet.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I’ll keep trying to get in touch with them — I haven’t got a call back yet.

give them a few days.