That's good because as a helo driver with no significant multi-engine fixed-wing time, you're not getting there anyway.
You just made my point.
That's good because as a helo driver with no significant multi-engine fixed-wing time, you're not getting there anyway.
Pretty much sums up how I feel about it. I think you forgot to point out our lack of these new-fangled things called "auto pilot" and "flight director" that we don't have. While we're flying an approach to mins. I'm curious how often your average airline pilot hand flies an approach without a flight director. My guess is not very often.Precisely. No need to break out the ruler from yesterday, but the tactical side is where the big difference is. We don't fly 60-90 hours a month (which, by "Show" standards makes us less experienced), but:
-We still fly internationally.
-We fly actual approaches to mins (with more antiquated navigation equipment than your local C172 driver).
-We skim the surface. Blacked out. Desert. Urban. Ocean. To unprepared zones. Sand...fog...no airways...
-We land below mins, on the boat, at night, in all kinds of weather...because that's all we've got.
-We shoot. We get shot at.
-And, we do all these things in aircraft that were old when our grandparents flew them. (Except Phrogdriver. His bird was old when his parents flew them.)
I'm with you on the day-to-day BS that we have to deal with; it sucks. However, what we bring to the table shouldn't be looked upon as being JV by the guys who have experience going from airport to airport.
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Agreed tht there will be no winners if there's boundary of the discussion at hand. Let me try: At no point in a Naval Aviation training program is one designated as a 'Professional Pilot.' I'm not sure that 'Professional Pilot' has been ever been a goal of mine, at least consciously. Do I want to be professional as a pilot? Sure. We all do or at least should. So if we're looking to define the pinnacle of being a 'Professional Pilot' as carrying pax, then maybe you all have a point. However, aren't you a little bit suspect of asking your peers with very similar career paths if the one that you've all chosen is the pinnacle? This is where I think most of us here diverge and take issue with the parochial, self-gratifing definition of the Airlines as 'The Show.' 'The Show' implies the Big Leagues, correct? In fact 'making it to the show' as I'm sure we're all familiar is a common phrase used to describe transitioning to the minors to the majors in baseball. So for someone to come to a place that was originally intended as a gathering place for Naval Aviators and Naval Aviators-to be, and suggest, that folks leave Naval Aviation in droves to make it to 'The Show' is condescending and just plain incorrect. When I've sat in ready Rooms and listened to guys talk about getting out and going to the airlines, it's never been to 'reach the pinnacle of Aviation.'
Maybe this is where we can look at our own separate definitions of 'pinnacle.' Briefing, leading and executing a perfect Airwing strike over bad guy country, with perfect timing and everyone coming back to a pitching deck at night with all objectives accomplished may be the pinnacle for some. I know that'd make me happy and that no number of crosswind landings down to minimums would ever supersede that sense of accomplishment. I know that there are other communities, even within Naval Aviation, that don't even operate from the boat!, that have equally important and difficult missions that would define their pinnacle differently. I can't and won't pretend to speak for them.
I guess that's what I'm getting at: Don't try to define success for others relative to your own sense of accomplishment. No one should have to tell you what the 'pinnacle' or 'Show' or whatever you want to call it is. Look at your peers and your predecessors, they should provide a fairly good guide of where it lies for you and if you're going to get there.
. Both felt as I do - for the average pilot, both military and civilian, flying for a major airline is the pinnacle of a professional pilot's career.
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Just don't bullshit yourselves. If you are totally unqualified for the airlines, don't talk about how you are basically shunning the industry by choice. It makes you look bitter.
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I don't think anybody can dismiss themselves as not qualified - if HAL can do it as an NFO, then nobody can say they can't do it, helo trash or otherwise. Now, if they argue they don't want to spend the money for the multi-engine qual themselves, or eat the turd of a regional job, or potentially derail their career track for C-12/C-26 gig, or whatever other excuse, then that is a different issue. But I think anybody can do it if they are willing to do what it takes.
I get what you're saying.
How about "inherently qualified based on your military time without wild exceptions or heroic levels of extra outside work"?