• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Mythbusters to take on: PLANE ON A TREADMILL!!

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
Boring question. The far more interesting one is

Is it possible to make a sailboat that sails downwind faster than the wind?

Or that sails directly upwind?


Yes to both, by the way.

Apparent wind is a cool thing; and it's what makes planing windsports so much fun.
 

jmcquate

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Nit picking Taxi. Directly upwind, 360 relative = 0 knots boat speed. Directly downwind, 180 relative = slower than wind speed.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Apparent wind is a cool thing; and it's what makes planing windsports so much fun.
The boat (or windsurfer) needs to sail directly downwind. So if the winds are out of the north at 10, the boat’s course is 180 and it’s speed is > 10. Or its course is due north and it’s speed is > 0.
 

Wareal

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Apparent wind is a cool thing; and it's what makes planing windsports so much fun.
Apparent wind indeed. "In the foiling AC72 America's cup catamarans, the boats sail through the water at up to double the environmental wind strength. The effect of this is to radically change the apparent wind direction when sailing "downwind". In these boats the forward speed is so great that the apparent wind is always forward—at an angle that varies between 2 and 4 degrees to the wing sail. This means that AC72's are effectively tacking downwind, although at a greater angle than the normal 45-degree upwind angle, usually between 50 and 70 degrees."
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Don't need planning or foils though. My boat, built in 1988, usually sails with apparent wind at the beam or forward. That is of course assuming I'm not F#%%$ing things up.

Now, if you put a sailboat on a treadmill...
 

Attachments

  • Daddio.jpg
    Daddio.jpg
    27.6 KB · Views: 19

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Related question:

In an air mass that is either still or has descending columns of air, is it possible in theory for a glider to climb? To gain altitude?
 

HokiePilot

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Related question:

In an air mass that is either still or has descending columns of air, is it possible in theory for a glider to climb? To gain altitude?

There are fancy ways that a glider could take advantage of the difference in wind between two airmasses, but that is rather hard to do reliably in full size gliders.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
There are fancy ways that a glider could take advantage of the difference in wind between two airmasses, but that is rather hard to do reliably in full size gliders.
Yeah, I don’t that you could in a full size one. I’ve seen the radio controlled ones do dynamic soaring, though. Crazy.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Related question:

In an air mass that is either still or has descending columns of air, is it possible in theory for a glider to climb? To gain altitude?
It depends on the lunar cycle- basically it has to be at high tide.

:p
 

FrankTheTank

Professional Pot Stirrer
pilot
Don't need planning or foils though. My boat, built in 1988, usually sails with apparent wind at the beam or forward. That is of course assuming I'm not F#%%$ing things up.

Now, if you put a sailboat on a treadmill...
Having sailed with Rob, I can vouch for this! And don’t let him fool you, he doesn’t F%$# things up!
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
Yeah, I don’t that you could in a full size one. I’ve seen the radio controlled ones do dynamic soaring, though. Crazy.

Albatrosses do it. But calm air days = sled rides in sailplanes.


There are fancy ways that a glider could take advantage of the difference in wind between two airmasses, but that is rather hard to do reliably in full size gliders.


Even then the warmer air rises over the cooler air it's converging with like it's going over a ridge, so it's not really still. In NW Florida, If you could get high and stay high early enough in the spring on a rare early hot day just as the sea breeze started kicking in you could ride around in it, but as soon as you got below the rising air you were looking for a place to land- at least the maritime air was pushing you towards the land. The nice thing about the stretch from Mobile to Pcola was that you couldn't swing a stick without hitting a landable field.

The club in Hampton Roads will go out to the military aviation museum in Pungo and fly out of there if some of the weather geeks think the conditions will be right for it.
 

HokiePilot

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Albatrosses do it. But calm air days = sled rides in sailplanes.





Even then the warmer air rises over the cooler air it's converging with like it's going over a ridge, so it's not really still. In NW Florida, If you could get high and stay high early enough in the spring on a rare early hot day just as the sea breeze started kicking in you could ride around in it, but as soon as you got below the rising air you were looking for a place to land- at least the maritime air was pushing you towards the land. The nice thing about the stretch from Mobile to Pcola was that you couldn't swing a stick without hitting a landable field.

The club in Hampton Roads will go out to the military aviation museum in Pungo and fly out of there if some of the weather geeks think the conditions will be right for it.

This past summer, I joined the glider club out in Front Royal, VA. It has a great mix of thermals, ridge, and wave.

Unfortunately, we are have issues with our wave window right now. The FAA wants 45 day notice to go into Class A and yeah, no one can predict wave that far out. So right now we are capped at 18,000 ft.

It's a great club 2 ASK-21s for training a sprite and a discus for fly fun flying. Plus many private gliders.
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
The FAA wants 45 day notice to go into Class A and yeah, no one can predict wave that far out. So right now we are capped at 18,000 ft.


When the hell did that start?! The Blue Ridge club, and the place out at Chilhowie doesn't have that problem (that I know of...).

That's a HUGE bummer.
 

HokiePilot

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
When the hell did that start?! The Blue Ridge club, and the place out at Chilhowie doesn't have that problem (that I know of...).

That's a HUGE bummer.

It seems to have been within the past year. It has been that way since I have been with the club. But has been a new thing the club has had to deal with.

We had a plan had a plan to do a week of training out in Petersburg, WV last month. There is reliable wave in the winter there up to FL230. But we had to cancel because there was a change in airport personnel and we missed the application for the deviation from the FARs.

There are a few of us who are exploring flying IFR in gliders. We aren't interested in flying IMC, just IFR. The FARs describe how one can get instrument current in a glider by flying a single engine airplane.
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
It seems to have been within the past year. It has been that way since I have been with the club. But has been a new thing the club has had to deal with.

We had a plan had a plan to do a week of training out in Petersburg, WV last month. There is reliable wave in the winter there up to FL230. But we had to cancel because there was a change in airport personnel and we missed the application for the deviation from the FARs.

There are a few of us who are exploring flying IFR in gliders. We aren't interested in flying IMC, just IFR. The FARs describe how one can get instrument current in a glider by flying a single engine airplane.

Interesting. How does one get a sailplane IFR rated? Instrumentation alone is going to be difficult. especially when a lot of FSDOs won't let you make changes to the airplane's electrical system (unless you're flying experimental...)
 
Top