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T-44 For The P-8?

81montedriver

Well-Known Member
pilot
Nope. Our FEs are all wearing a "dying breed" patch right now. Supposedly the IFT is also going by the wayside...

It's sad that they are going away, apart from making sure the plane stays airborne, the FEs add a great deal to the flight station. That being said you really cant make the argument that they are needed in the P-8 with the level of automation.
The Marine Herc community went through the same deal with the J-model. Because the J engines have FADEC and our Warnings Cautions and Advisory's are all tied into the ACAWS system, there is absolutely no need for an FE or a Nav in the J.

Having worked with legacy crews before, it was really interesting to see how little flight planning the legacy pilots do compared to J pilots. Also having flown on a legacy, it truly helped me to understand why the legacy has an FE and a Nav. All those knobs need some skilled fingers turning them in just the right sequence while the left seat pilot flies the plane and the copilot talks on the radio and moves the gear handle.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
So what is so much more complicated on a T-56 -whatever in a P-3/C-130 over a T-56-425/427 in a C2/E2?

Neither engine is FADEC (the 427 does have some FADEC like features, but is still mechanical, with electronic fine tuning) and it's not that hard to start, get set for takeoff, climb or approach. The NP2K took the Prop Sync control away, but other than that?
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
So what is so much more complicated on a T-56 -whatever in a P-3/C-130 over a T-56-425/427 in a C2/E2?

Neither engine is FADEC (the 427 does have some FADEC like features, but is still mechanical, with electronic fine tuning) and it's not that hard to start, get set for takeoff, climb or approach. The NP2K took the Prop Sync control away, but other than that?
MB, probably nothing. The FEs are a holdover from the Lockheed Electra design. Could the pilots realistically do the FE's job? Yes, but the P-3 cockpit is setup for that 3rd position to manage the fuel, engine bleed air, sync system (and whatever else I'm forgetting) etc as a result of them building it out of a 1950's airliner.
 

jollygreen07

Huge Monstrosity
pilot
Contributor
MB, probably nothing. The FEs are a holdover from the Lockheed Electra design. Could the pilots realistically do the FE's job? Yes, but the P-3 cockpit is setup for that 3rd position to manage the fuel, engine bleed air, sync system (and whatever else I'm forgetting) etc as a result of them building it out of a 1950's airliner.
Same-samey with us.
 

81montedriver

Well-Known Member
pilot
So what is so much more complicated on a T-56 -whatever in a P-3/C-130 over a T-56-425/427 in a C2/E2?

Neither engine is FADEC (the 427 does have some FADEC like features, but is still mechanical, with electronic fine tuning) and it's not that hard to start, get set for takeoff, climb or approach. The NP2K took the Prop Sync control away, but other than that?
4 engines vs 2.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
So 4 start switches, vice one double throw switch, and 4 bleed air switches vice 2?

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk
 

statesman

Shut up woman... get on my horse.
pilot
Super Moderator
I can't speak to the Herc or the Hummer, but in the P-3 the FEs perform mostly in a systems management roll, mostly having to do with the engines but not exclusively. They also act as a scan backup for the pilots in a lot of ways. Could the pilots be tasked with performing those tasks, yeah, but its really nice having the FE keeping an eye on oil temp, hyd press, fuel flow, maintaining the fuel log, etc. when your at 300 ft tracking a submarine.
 

jollygreen07

Huge Monstrosity
pilot
Contributor
So 4 start switches, vice one double throw switch, and 4 bleed air switches vice 2?

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk
I think you are missing the point. The aircraft were designed in the 50s to be three-place cockpits. The aircraft that the P-8 is based on has a two-man cockpit. Different design philosophies at work. The 737NG has a level of automation built in that didn't exist when the Electra/707/legacy Herc were designed. Could the FE-required aircraft do the job without the engineer? Sure, but it would require extensive mods. Systems management is the bread and butter of the FE but the navy didn't install the FE station after the aircraft was acquired. They came that way.
 

scoolbubba

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
So 4 start switches, vice one double throw switch, and 4 bleed air switches vice 2?

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk
6 bleeds. Don't forget about the fuselage switches! And yea, we could probably do without. But I don't want to, so I don't. We would get a better rack with no FE, though.
 

xj220

Will fly for food.
pilot
Contributor

That's a lot to monitor for two people, especially at 300 ft in the middle of ASW. Remember, that's what this plane was originally designed for and low altitude flight gets very intense at times, especially when you're on top something and it's in the middle of the night when you can't see anything.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Remember, I've done ASW. More than AEW.

Still not seeing it. Remember, the E-2 is as old as the P-3.

Just a community difference I guess.

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk
 

statesman

Shut up woman... get on my horse.
pilot
Super Moderator
Could be the Canadians.

Their P-3s are all tricked out inside... kind of look like a rape van on the inside, with the carpet and the wood trim.
 
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