New wings approved for AMDO/Aviation LDO/CWOs

[Flash]

Wow, that's quite the thing to say. As a mustang (and a AMDO who was previously in the NFO pipeline), I must say you really show your true colors with that statement. If you had any clue of the PQS that I have to work through to get the PAMO pin, I'd think you'd be singing a different tune.

What specific statement?

Sorry to disappoint you but I doubt anyone would change their tune after reading through the PQS.

 

[Dirty]

SKillet... SKeeter---... Naahhh

 

[et1nuke]

Supply types can't earn regular dolphins, either. Nuke school is required for the 1120's.

Submarine chops have their own set of dolphins which they earn after qualifying everything they can without standing a nuclear watch.

 

[Short]

1. In some tactical aircraft, getting aboard can be a team effort. I guess they don't have an FAA rating for CQ.

2. Arrogance isn't the sole purview of aircrew. More lectures are given on the topic of aircrew arrogance by AMDO types who then spend a good ten minutes explaining how awesome they are. Two of the best officers I've met have been wrench turning Mustang types. A couple of the crappiest too. I've also seen more arrogance without excellence than I would care to at many a maintenance control. If you're going to be patronizing, you better f'in be right.

3. Some of the most rewarding moments in my life have been taking care of my Sailors as a maintenance DivO, and your average aircrew understands that jets don't go flying without a massive team effort from guys who work back-breaking hours for shit pay in one of the most dangerous environments on earth. They are a god damn gift. That said, about 5000 people are working to get a 26 year old off the deck in a multi-million dollar aircraft so that he can go to work. Wrenches turn so jets can fly; we don't fly so wrenches can turn.

 

[S.O.B.]

(NOT the same as a functional check pilot in the Navy)

.

Just out of curiosity: what's the difference?

 

[Pags]

Just out of curiosity: what's the difference?

maintenance test pilot gets you more points in scrabble.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Skillet, Brother...
What level maintenence was Meridian? Wings, smings... the keg is dead in the war room! SSSSKKKKIIIIILLLLLEEEETTT!!!

 

[MasterBates]

Jesus.. Skillet needs to chill the fuck out..

PQS, no matter HOW long gets no "Rep" with me.. Have you almost died from a papercut during a night trap when the hummer plopped down on top of Ready 7?

You know.. I've done IN ADDITION to wings, oh, about 5 PQSs now.. The current one (CBATS for those who know my pain) is 130 pages. And that's just the ground discuss.. And I don't get a damned thing for completing it. No patch. No pin. No nothing. I just get to keep on doing my job.

Not everyone needs bling. Take your self esteem culture shit to the USAF please.

 

[A4sForever]

We're not the AF or the Army ... perhaps they provide a higher level of 'job satisfaction' by virtue of their greater number of 'pins' ... ???

This ain't hard: guys that fly -- get Wings. Guys that don't -- don't.

 

[Thisguy]

2. Arrogance isn't the sole purview of aircrew. More lectures are given on the topic of aircrew arrogance by AMDO types who then spend a good ten minutes explaining how awesome they are. Two of the best officers I've met have been wrench turning Mustang types. A couple of the crappiest too. I've also seen more arrogance without excellence than I would care to at many a maintenance control. If you're going to be patronizing, you better f'in be right.

Very true on the bold part. I've seen the arrogance from both sides during my short time in the fleet and for AMDOs it basically comes down to recognition and some sort of inferiority complex. Or to put it graphically:

AMDOs: 8===D

NA/NFO: 8==========D

 

[RobLyman]

Just out of curiosity: what's the difference?

First, I must qualify my Navy experience by saying that the last time I did FCFs in the Navy was in the early 90s, so my experience might be different than how it is done today in the Navy.

To become an FCP, my CO had to assign me to a job in maintenance. In my case, it was AV/ARMs division. I then went through some OJT, flew many FCFs with another pilot, and took an informal check ride. The CO wrote a letter assigning me as an FCP. In the Army, I had to be selected to go to the MTP course in Ft. Rucker. First day in the course is a chapter 5 & 9 (limitations and EPs) test that you must score 100% on. All of the descriptions and sub items on the MTF checklist must be memorized. You must draw out the AC and the DC electrical systems by memory on a blank sheet of paper several times throughout the course. You must know all of the relays, what they do and their locations in the aircraft. The course was much more difficult than any course I can remember doing in the Navy. The level of systems knowledge required of the MTP is much more detailed than that of the FCP.

The Navy FCP has less leeway in deciding what maintenance requires a test flight and what should be done on a test flight. The Army MTPs are more involved in the actual maintenance and troubleshooting. Instead of being an FCP for one tour or part of a tour, Army MTPs do this for most, if not all of their career.

In the Navy, the FCP reports discrepancies on a test flight to maintenance control. He is trained to recognize and evaluate malfunctions and suggest a course of action. Maintenance control makes the call. In the Army, the MTP makes the call. The MTP follows through on the maintenance, ensures it is complete and signed off, then plans the operational checks and test flight required to ensure the system is operational.

The MTP must do an annual APART check ride (like NATOPS) which consists of a full maintenance check flight, in addition to his normal APART. The maintenance check flgiht portion must be done by a maintenance examiner, usually someone outside of the immediate command.

The FCP is a pilot who is very knowledgeable about aircraft systems and additionally does FCFs. The Army MTP is also knowledgeable about aircraft systems, not only knows how to perform a check flight but also knows what each step of the MTF checklist is testing. The MTP also functions as an aviation maintenance officer.

There is such a difference that the Army assigns an additional MOS for test pilots. Think of it as a 1310M designator indicating a dual rating of pilot AND aviation maintenance officer.

Ther might be Navy FCPs with more experience than some Army MTPs, but as a whole, you will see MTPs with a lot more hands on maintenance experience and they will be more involved in the quality control and production control of the aircraft in their company or battalion.

I would like to see if this all still holds true. Perhaps a current Navy FCP could chime in?

 

[Scoob]

Ther might be Navy FCPs with more experience than some Army MTPs, but as a whole, you will see MTPs with a lot more hands on maintenance experience and they will be more involved in the quality control and production control of the aircraft in their company or battalion.

How many MTPs to a company? What is the crew composition of a maintenance flight? Sounds like MTPs have a more detailed level of maintenance knowledge, but is that concentrated in just a few people?

I started FCP quals immediately after coming home from my HAC cruise and had something like 80 hrs of PIC time. Nothing started ramping up my knowledge level like flying FCFs w/ the QAO.

 

[A4sForever]

First, I must qualify my Navy experience by saying ...

... and the rest is history ... and words. But thanks for them, anyway.

Not current 'gouge' --- but when I became a FCP in the USN (twice -- a.k.a. two different communities) ... it was a collaboration between MX and OPS w/a final 'chop' by the C.O. on who got selected and who didn't ... that's just the way we did it.

'They' selected the BEST stick & throttle pilots -- no prior job 'required' in MX (I'm proud of the fact I NEVER had a job in MX ... just kiddin' guys, but still -- very, very true) -- 'cause the FCF went according to a cut & dried checklist ... it didn't require a lot of imagination, just a lot of 'feeling' for the bird and the ability to read/write/talk/chew gum/fly all at the same time ...

And MX screwed me one time ... QA was out to lunch on the engine R&R ... and thus my logbooks after 25K hours total flight time between USN & civie-street reflect just ONE more take-off than landing ...

 

[phrogpilot73]

I would like to see if this all still holds true. Perhaps a current Navy FCP could chime in?

Not a Navy FCP, but a Marine who just completed the FCP syllabus. For us, job in maintenance not required. There's readings in the MIMs, and a test, and a bunch of testing as a 2P with one of the FCPs. The MO has to do your check ride (a full card). Once all that's done, CO signs your letter and you're an FCP. So, not much different from your experience in the Navy and it sounds VASTLY different than the Army.

Oh, and my check ride was a full card of a post phase bird that took a week and a half to get up. The first time it's on the schedule? Dual engine overtorque. Bastards!

 

[PropAddict]

First day in the course is a chapter 5 & 9 (limitations and EPs) test that you must score 100% on. All of the descriptions and sub items on the MTF checklist must be memorized. You must draw out the AC and the DC electrical systems by memory on a blank sheet of paper several times throughout the course. You must know all of the relays, what they do and their locations in the aircraft.

Sounds like standard P-3 2P PQS material to me. . .