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New BAH policy...

bb1125

Member
None
If you guys go to the JFTR, you can find all you need to know about what you're entitled to. Like I said in a previous post, I think they're just fixing what has been done wrong for who knows how long. When you talk to PSD, if you don't understand something, ask to see the instruction, they usually have it sitting on their desk. In the meantime, you can read up on your own. Here's the link to the JFTR:

http://dodtravelregs.hqda.pentagon.mil/propub/template.htm?view=main
 

Nomar116

Registered User
pilot
I was miscounceled when moving to Pensacola. I was counceled by my departing duty station for a PCS move with entitlement to move $10k pounds. I did a DITY move and have since been sitting on the paperwork thinking I just got screwed out of the money for the move. I have brought this up in other topics but I bring it up here BECAUSE....

If I have in writing that I was given a brief for a PCS move to Pensacola (not TDY) wouldn't that PCS move also mean I am entitled to normal BAH?

They claimed I could not get the Navy to PAY me for a move I did, but would forgive a debt that will be owed by a roommate of mine who is a SNA and was also miscounceled but DID do a PCS move. The difference was the Navy would forgive a debt but not pay out money, it was a shady answer at best.

I do NOT want Uncle Sam screwing me on the DITY money I thought I was entitled to AND taking away BAH money he's already paid me. This is ridiculous. I have to think having this in writing puts me out of harms way.

The catch? I have no idea who to talk to about this. I am tired of walking into PSD and getting the run-around.
 

foampositz

livin' life
pilot
And what if your original orders were stamped "Government quarters were NOT available" upon check in? Are you subject to this transient BAH policy?

Keep us updated for anyone who has gone to PSD. I'm sitting back until I see some money missing from my LES.
 

Nomar116

Registered User
pilot
Sitting back seems like the best approach... BUT who knows WHEN they'll decide to take this money back. What if its after we can actually do anything about it? Although maybe I'm mistaken in actually thinking I CAN do anything about these f*ups....
 

SQUIDutah

Member
pilot
If you really feel that you are getting bad info, politely ask to speak to the supervisor. Still feel your problem isn't resolved? Continue up the chain. Ask them to show you the instruction of what you don't understand. Read the instruction yourself and point out to them where you think it conflicts with what they are telling you. Just remember that just because they are not telling you what you want to hear, it doesn't mean they are wrong. Get your ducks in a row and present your info. Good luck.

I did this today and Miss. XXXXX (PM me if you want to talk to the supervisor and I will give you her name) told me everything is in the air right now and all Per Diem is canx untill the new instructions/messages are issued from detailer and NAVPERS (in a couple of weeks). She told me the Per Diem thing is changing to trim the fat to shift funds for the war. As it stands right now, for now those without follow on orders will get transient BAH ($5-600 as stated before) and once orders are cut to follow on (CC or Vance) they will be eligible for per diem. I must note that this is the third different thing PSD told me, but she is the supervisor of the student section of PSD. I asked her if she could brief the A-pool/API once she gets the new instruction/message.

As for now everyone can hold their breath. :(
 

magnetfreezer

Well-Known Member
Here's an update:
Secondly, regarding per diem. I was told that if you got a stamp on your orders from the BOQ saying that govt quarters WERE available, you will not be entitled to per diem, because you basically passed on cheaper govt housing to go live out on town.

Jan 2008 JFTR Appendix O Paragraph T4040 A1b said:
Uniformed Member – A member ordered to a U.S. Installation (as opposed to a geographic location like a town or city) is required to check the Government quarters availability (e.g., through the CTOs/TMCs) at the U.S. Installation to which assigned TDY. The AO may direct adequate (based on DOD and Service standards) available Government quarters use for a uniformed member on a U.S. Installation only if the uniformed member is TDY to that U.S. installation. Availability/non-availability must be documented as indicated in par. U1045-C. A member should use adequate available Government quarters on the U.S. Installation at which assigned TDY; however, when adequate Government quarters are available on the U.S. Installation to which a member is assigned TDY and the member uses other lodgings as a personal choice, lodging reimbursement is limited to the Government quarters cost on the U.S Installation to which assigned TDY (44 Comp. Gen. 626 (1965)). Per diem cannot be limited based on the presence of ‘nearby’ Government quarters (i.e., not on the U.S. Installation to which the member is assigned TDY but on another ‘nearby’ U.S. Installation or other uniformed facility). The documentation of non-availability indicated in par. U1045-C is required only for Government lodging ‘AT’ the U.S. Installation at which the member is assigned TDY.

If you stay out in town you are still owed the BOQ cost for the TDY period; the BOQ availability/non-availability stamp should only affect getting reimbursed if you were to stay at a hotel in Pensacola and claim reimbursement for a higher daily rate.
 

incubus852

Member
pilot
And what if your original orders were stamped "Government quarters were NOT available" upon check in? Are you subject to this transient BAH policy?

Keep us updated for anyone who has gone to PSD. I'm sitting back until I see some money missing from my LES.

this apparently means that you don't get per diem. you get the transient BAH regardless i think. that is if you are a SNA, not married, with no follow on orders etc.
 

Nomar116

Registered User
pilot
You can pick and choose from this damn JFTR document all you want. However, as I pour over this with nothing else to do (and smoke coming out my ears) it doesn't look good.

First, the above quoted paragraph from Appendix O continues with

f. If the traveler is on TDY at one location for more than 30 days, lodging reservations should be made on a weekly, monthly, or other long-term basis if possible. When longer-term lodging is used, the allowable lodging cost includes the rent; charges for furniture rental (as long as an option to buy is not exercised); utilities connections, use and disconnection fees; cleaning fees; telephone monthly use fees, but not toll charges; and other services ordinarily provided by a hotel.

And then Chapter 1 Par. U1045 reads (I'll quote alot because it seems VERY applicable)

U1045 GOVERNMENT QUARTERS USE/AVAILABILITY
A. Quarters Available. A member ordered to a U.S. Installation (as opposed to a geographic location like a town or city) is required to check Government quarters availability (e.g., through their CTOs) at the U.S. Installation to which they are assigned TDY. The AO may direct adequate (based on DOD and Service standards) available Government quarters use for a uniformed member on a U.S. Installation only if the uniformed member is TDY to that U.S. installation. Availability/non-availability must be documented as indicated in par. U1045-C. A member should use adequate available Government quarters on the U.S. Installation at which assigned TDY; however, when adequate Government quarters are available on the U.S. Installation to which a member is assigned TDY and the member uses other lodgings as a personal choice, lodging reimbursement is limited to the Government quarters cost on the U.S Installation to which assigned TDY (44 Comp. Gen. 626 (1965)). Per diem cannot, however, be limited based on the presence of ‘nearby’ Government quarters (i.e., not on the U.S. Installation to which the member is assigned TDY but on another ‘nearby’ U.S. Installation or other uniformed facility). The documentation of non-availability indicated in par. U1045-C is required only for Government lodging ‘AT’ the U.S. Installation at which the member is assigned TDY.

NOTE 1: FOR COAST GUARD, NOAA, AND PHS PERSONNEL ONLY: Government quarters are available only if use is directed in the order.

NOTE 2: The member is not required to seek (or check for) Government quarters when TDY to a U.S. Installation after non-availability documentation has been initially provided. Checking quarters availability is a one-time requirement at a TDY U.S. Installation. (Ex: A member who is required to check quarters availability on arrival at a U.S. Installation, does so, and is issued non-availability documentation cannot be required to re-check later for quarters availability at that U.S. Installation during that TDY period there). See par. U1045-C.

B. Quarters Not Available. Government quarters are not available:
1. When a TDY/delay point is at other than a U.S. Installation;
2. When an AO determines that Government quarters use would adversely affect mission performance, except for:
a. A member attending a service school at an installation; and
b. An officer in grades O-7 through O-10 who personally determines quarters availability;

And what appears to be where they are getting this BAH-Transit Information

U10416 MEMBER IN TRANSIT

A. General. A Transit housing allowance (BAH-T) is a temporary housing allowance paid while a member is in a travel or leave status between PDSs, provided the member is not assigned Government quarters. BAH-T continues during proceed time and authorized delays en route, including TDY en route. NOTE: If the member performs TDY en route at:
1. The new PDS or
2. A location near, but outside the limits of, the new PDS and per diem stops IAW par. U5120-D

BAH for the new PDS begins the day of arrival in a “TDY” status at the new PDS in par. U10416-A1 or the day per diem stops in the case of par. U10416-A2. (This does not appear to apply to those of us without follow-on orders, see below)

B. Old PDS in the U.S. A member’s old PDS is the PDS for BAH purposes from the day the member departs the old PDS through the day before the member reports to the new PDS in compliance with a PCS order (if the member had been residing in Government quarters at the old PDS, the member is authorized BAH as of the Government quarters termination date). See Tables U10E-12, U10E-16 and U10E-17 for further guidance.

C. Old PDS outside the U.S. When a member’s old PDS is outside the U.S., the member is authorized OHA (if not assigned Government quarters) through the day before departing the OCONUS PDS. The day the member departs OHA is no longer authorized and the member is authorized BAH-T (for rates see http://perdiem.hqda.pentagon.mil/perdiem/bah.html) if the member is not receiving a with-dependent housing allowance for dependents residing separately. If the member is being paid a with-dependent rate BAH for dependents residing separately, that BAH rate continues until the member arrives at the new PDS. If the member is being paid a with-dependent rate OHA for dependents residing separately, that OHA rate continues provided the dependents remain at the OCONUS location. If the dependents also perform PCS travel, BAH-T applies.

D. New Accessions. BAH-T applies to a member without dependents in the accession pipeline, to include a Reserve Component member undergoing initial training, when in a travel status, leave en route or proceed time while transferring from the initial entry training location, between training locations and to the first PDS. BAH-T applies until the member reports to the new PDS. A member in the accession pipeline includes a:

*NOTE: Service academy and ROTC graduates without dependents, who remain at the graduation/ commissioning location following graduation and commissioning before proceeding to another duty station and are not assigned Government quarters, are authorized a housing allowance at the without-dependents rate for the graduation/ commissioning location through the day prior to departure en route to the training location. If the officer acquires dependents, the officer’s housing allowance with-dependent rate becomes based on the dependents’ location effective the date dependents are acquired.

1. Member who is undergoing initial entry training, to include a Reserve Component member;

2. Student (includes ROTC and OCS) without prior Military Service; See NOTE above.

3. Service Military Academy graduate upon graduation, until arrival at the first PDS. See NOTE above.

For the purpose of BAH only, the initial entry-training site is defined as a PDS. A member without dependents is not authorized BAH since Government quarters are assigned. The BAH rate for a new accession with dependents is based on the dependents’ location if they are located inside the U.S. If dependents are located outside the U.S., BAH is based on the training site location.

F. Decision Logic Table

Rule 7: If the member is a new accession in the pipeline in a travel status, leave en route or proceed time while transferring from the initial training location, between training locations and to the first PDS

...and the member has no dependents
THEN Start the transit rate when the member is in a travel status between duty/training stations and the new PDS-based BAH rate the day the member reports to the new PDS
.

...and the member is with dependents
THEN For dependents located in the US, continue dependents location-based BAH through the day before the day the member reports to the new PDS. The first PDS BAH rate begins the day the member reports to the first PDS. (continues about outside the US)

Rule 9: If the member is a new accession Academy or ROTC graduate remaining at the graduation/commission location awaiting follow-on tranining and not assigned government quarters

...and the member has no dependents
THEN Pay graduation/commission location-based BAH through the day prior to departure en route to the training location. The Transit rate applies thereafter. See rule 7 above
.

Also, there are two changes around this info noted. One is Change 250 on 10/1/07 (U10E-29) and the other is Change 251 on 11/1.07 (U10E-28). That seems to be some kind of change reference but I don't know where those references are.

It doesn't look good.
 

Nomar116

Registered User
pilot
The way these directives are currently written it seems to exclude us (FOR SOME REASON) from collecting BAH. But what we SHOULD be entitled to, right now, is PER DIEM. I can not find anywhere where they are coming up with these crazy PER DIEM rules they are enforcing, maybe I'm missing something. I quoted a few things of interest in my DITY BURN thread.

http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139671
 

red_ryder

Well-Known Member
None
Ok, so if I understand this right:

You don't get per diem because you have no orders to go to your first PDS yet. Per diem is for travel due to being ordered en route to somewhere.

So until you get orders to primary, you should be getting BAH, which is BAH-T due to your presumably single with no dependents status, and the fact that you haven't reported to your very first PDS yet.
 

mmx1

Woof!
pilot
Contributor
Does this apply to Marines?

Its affected Marines on PTAD prior to TBS, where in some instances they've drawn BAH-II in lieu of BAH since they are not coming from a prior duty station.

Since Quantico to Pensacola is a PCS, this doesn't affect us and to the best of my knowledge, hasn't affected any 2ndLt's.
 

Carno

Insane
Its affected Marines on PTAD prior to TBS, where in some instances they've drawn BAH-II in lieu of BAH since they are not coming from a prior duty station.

Since Quantico to Pensacola is a PCS, this doesn't affect us and to the best of my knowledge, hasn't affected any 2ndLt's.

Thank fucking god.
 

Nomar116

Registered User
pilot
If you got a PCS then you are in the clear.

After a trip into PSD I continue to think those of us awaiting a PDS should have been entitled Per Diem. However, the following seems to speak against that...

*U4101 WHEN PER DIEM IS AUTHORIZED
Unless otherwise specifically provided for or restricted in JFTR, the per diem prescribed in this Part applies for all TDY periods, and travel in connection therewith, including but not limited to the following:

1. Periods of necessary delay awaiting further transportation,
2. Periods of delay at POEs and PODs ICW a PCS,
3. TDY periods directed in a PCS order,
4. Delays to qualify for reduced travel fares (see par. U4326-E).


U2146 TIME LIMITATIONS FOR TDY PERIODS (COURSES OF INSTRUCTION)
A. TDY for Training Less Than 140 Days (20 Weeks)
1. General. Course(s) of instruction at a school or installation with a scheduled duration of less than 140 days (20 weeks) are TDY. No per diem is payable if prohibited by par. U7125-B. If the scheduled course duration is 140 or more days, the school or installation is that member's PDS, except when the course is authorized as TDY under par. U2146-B.
2. Scheduled Duration. The "scheduled duration" of a course is the actual period, including weekends, students receive instruction. Intervening holiday periods (e.g., recess for Christmas) and incidental time spent prior to, or following conclusion of, a course are not part of the scheduled course duration (53 Comp. Gen. 218 (1973)).

Grab your ankles.

U7125 TRAVEL WHEN PER DIEM NOT AUTHORIZED

*A. Orders to Active Duty - no PDS Designated. A member whose orders to active duty do not designate a specific PDS after the TDY is completed, is not entitled to per diem during the TDY. NOTE: Per diem payment is authorized (also see subpar. B) from the date the member receives orders naming a PDS other than the TDY station. See par. U7000-B for Service academy graduates.

B. Undergoing Processing. Except as provided in item 3, no per diem is payable before reporting to the first PDS while an enlisted member (newly inducted or enlisted) undergoes processing, indoctrination, basic training (including follow-on technical training and/or home station training for members of the reserve components), or instruction in a TDY status at a place where both Government mess and Government quarters (other than temporary lodging facilities) are available. (See subpar. A when a first PDS is not specified in a member's orders.) However, per diem payment is authorized during:

1. Travel to, from, or between places for processing, indoctrination, training, or instruction;
2. Delay or processing incident to travel to a designated PDS or while awaiting transportation to such station; or
3. TDY under instruction following initial technical or specialty training after basic training if a PDS has been assigned and per diem during the course of instruction is authorized through the Secretarial Process specifically for these members.
 
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