Navy to Marine

[Jester]

The difference between Marine pilots and Navy pilots is that a Marine becomes a Marine to be a Marine not a f@#*ing pilot. Most of the "squids" I've met wouldn't be in the Navy if they were'nt flying. So, you can bet your left nut that some Marines are gonna be pissed because some "squid" crossed over just to fly jets. In the end we're all on the same team though, *****ing about who PT's better is silly. Marines have higher PT standards simply because for most Marines their body is a weapon. Being out of shape for a grunt Marine can get them killed on the battlefield. Being a bag of ass on a ship doesn't have the same repercussions. Although it does display a lack of military discipline.

 

[wilsonator]

we need to start a new thread entitled "hey there, marine, here's a soapbox for you stand and preach on".

 

[Chubby]

Yall can't be serious, if the Marine Corps is taking people, it is for a good reason. So stop with the whinning, unless you want to be the one to tell Lance Corporal Schmuckatelli that he cant have CAS today because you didn't want a "squid" in your club. Or perhaps you should write the letter to his parents. There are bigger things in the world than ego's. Grow up.

 

[USMCBebop]

So what does that mean for people like me who are applying for air slots? I dont like the idea at all.

You shouldn't. A capt. I used to work for lost his flight contract while at TBS (him and other Lts.) when a great number of Naval Aviators transferred to the Corps during his time at TBS (that was awhile back. I'm not sure when he got commissioned).

Of course the Corps decided that their "new" aviator billets were filled and that they would save money by dropping all new flight contracts for that fiscal year.

 

[35_NSS]

we need to start a new thread entitled "hey there, marine, here's a soapbox for you stand and preach on".

Or maybe we need to start a new thread entitled " how many hot dogs can a squid eat"

 

[Fly Navy]

A capt. I used to work for lost his flight contract while at TBS (him and other Lts.) when a great number of Naval Aviators transferred to the Corps during his time at TBS (that was awhile back. I'm not sure when he got commissioned).

Not to be picky, but Marine pilots are Naval Aviators, just like Navy pilots are.

 

[Chubby]

For all of the preaching that I hear, I have yet to hear how this might actually be good for the grunt on the ground. (Read: more planes in the air means more close air support for the troops, etc.) Yall, the Marines, are the ones b**ching and moaning that it is Marine first, pilot second. Yet, all I hear is yall crying in the corner of the shower about how some "squid" might get your jet slot. Boo hoo. If you were so Semper Fi, grunts first, you wouldn't care, so long as someone in the air was supporting the guys on the ground. Hypocrites. (That means persons given to hypocrisy for the jarheads) And this is coming from a bonafide "squid". Personally, I could care less what the hell I fly, just so long as I do my job and my people get home in one piece. There are bigger things in life than "your jet slot". And if a neophyte Ensign can grasp the concept of troops first, self second, so should you. Once again, grow up and act like an Officer.

 

[lowflier03]

I still dont see how this solves the immediate problem for the Marines. The Navy jet guys that transfer still have to finish Jet advanced, go through TBS, then the RAG/FRS. Even if they were winging this week and transferring, the Marines wouldnt reap the benefits for at least 6 months and thats just getting pilots to the RAG.

 

[ordinary_guy]

Gentlemen,

A) What exactly does a Marine pilot learn at TBS which makes him or her better able to support ground troops?
B) Is TBS the only means for imparting that required knowledge?
C) Is an A-10 pilot, who presumably has never been to TBS, able to support ground troops effectively?

I'm not belittling anyone's position; I'm just curious.

 

[aviatorshade]

Marines are Marines and deserve to be led by Marines. I'm not going to try to explain the ethos of the Marine Corps. You wouldn't understand if your not one anyway. If a squid wants to wear the uniform and bear the title then I will forego the fact that he may have chosen to do so because a hornet slot was dangled in front of him. TBS means you will have to prove you have what it takes before you get the privelage of leading your fellow devil dogs, but more importantly former squid will learn why it is important for any aviator doing CAS for Marines to be TBS trained...Marine aviators are provisional rifle platoon commanders temporarily assigned to flight duty.

 

[ordinary_guy]

So basically the answer is: Because that's the way it is.

 

[phrogdriver]

As usual, the truth is somewhere between the extremes. The "TBS is everything" crowd neglect to account for the fact that we've abandoned TBS for aviators at various times in our history and have done just fine. It's the same thinking that makes us require all Fwd Air Controllers be aviators. We think that there is some Vulcan mind-meld going on between air and ground because of the common training. It really isn't so. BTW, a good way for the Corps to fill its pilot requirements would be to allow enlisted FACs.

However, that's not to say that there isn't considerable value added in having common training between ground and air.

To help out "Ordinary Guy:"
a) Probably the biggest thing that a pilot gets is an understanding of ground scheme of manuever. Understanding what a ground force commander intends to do helps maximize one's SA when all goes to crap. Knowing ground terminology doesn't hurt either. I have had to alter the insert LZ on the fly a couple of times, and it doesn't hurt to understand what the guys in the back need, because there's only so much they can see out the side windows.

Also, Marines tend to put aircraft, especially helos, in forward areas. It helps to know how to defend an area, set up a perimeter, and so forth.

b) TBS isn't the only way to get that knowledge. But it's kinda like Wal-mart: one-stop shopping. You can acquire this stuff on the fly, but you're more likely to step on your crank doing it.

c) An A-10 can support ground troops. He is aided by having a fantastic CAS/FAC(A) platform. However, there is value added by TBS. It's not an all or nothing proposition. Remember that Marines fight as a MAGTF (Marine Air-Ground Task Force), meaning that air and ground are in the same unit. This also means that an aviator may be leading a unit that is mostly ground. It definitely helps to all be on the same page as a unit. Fighting as a unit also helps cohesion, sychronization, etc., etc. E.g. those guys needing a ride aren't just another bunch of losers needing a taxi service, they're from MY battalion.

Long story short. A couple dozen guys w/out TBS is no biggie. We're AT WAR. Get the sand out of your c)(ts about sailors who haven't done TBS/OCS taking your slots. They never were your slots. Repeat these phrases 100 times: "Needs of the Marine Corps," and "Mission accomplishment." At the same time, I hope that if this all happens, we will be able to resume business as usual ASAP and fully train everyone.

 

[wilsonator]

My daddy's gonna beat your daddy up.

 

[chubbs]

First things first…35 NSS it doesn’t take a psychiatrist to figure out you are the world’s most insecure person. It’s quite clear you need to put squids down to feel better about yourself (I’m guessing because most of them fly better than you). Second two summers ago I talked to a Marine Capt. who was a FAC in Enduring Freedom and he said whenever he needed CAS the first thing he said was and I quote, “Where are the Spectre’s and the Spooks?” So for all you Marines crying that you need TBS to put warheads on foreheads near Marine lines, one of your own sold you out…For the AIR FORCE no less!!!! Also, please correct me if I am wrong on this but wouldn’t any Marine hornets on a modern battlefield be placed on the ATO and therefore under the direct control of a Navy E-2 or Air Force AWAC? And if the call from a Marine unit for CAS came in would those controllers look for the nearest plane that had munitions or would they look for the nearest plane with bombs AND somebody who had been to TBS? If you ask me if you Marines really do care about the men on the ground you would want the best pilots possible to give them support and right now the Navy has a surplus of good pilots and the Marines have a shortage of pilots in general, so if you were really as concerned about the grunts as you make out, you would stop complaining about Navy people transitioning and start thinking of ways to integrate them into the Marines as fast as possible with as little trouble as possible. Bigworm can you help me off my soapbox? I’m just a squid so I’m sucking wind trying to get down.

 

[ordinary_guy]

Thank you, Phrog.