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MIA A4sForever?
- Thread starter Tex_Hill
- Start date
Yep - I think there were only 9-ish built http://www.aero-web.org/specs/grumman/tc-4c.htm VA-128 was always a big help getting parts and maintainers to Hill or Offut to fix a broken jet.
It took us a long time to get the "airborn troubleshooter" program back in to VAQ in the early 90's and it paid off in spades. We got to get our high performers a chance to see what their hard work looked like and reward it. In addition, it saved us a whole lot of time when we broke a jet on the road. One AD and a starter motor in the birdcage and you saved yourself a TC-4 (look that one up youngsters) or NALO flight. Two of my troops finished their degrees at the local college and went to AOCS motivated by their flights. They both said it was life changing for them.
The reward flights is something the USAF does much better than us.
Funny you mention that, I was fortunate enough to go for a ride in a P-3 when I was an E-3 for Blue Jacket of the Quarter. The pilot was a prior E and let me fly it briefly. It gave me the bug...Started college right after,finished my degree, applied to OCS, got accepted for Pilot, and I will be in Newport next month!! I think that it is a great motivator for young sailors, and is probably very rewarding for officers. I just hope that I will be able to pay it forward when I'm the O and take some hard chargers for a flight.
^This.
One of the major factors that caused me to pursue a commission / aviation contract was a few Shitter rides (in the tube, no wiggling the sticks), combined with some fun sim time.
As an FCP, I'd bring troubleshooters up all the time (which I realize is a lot easier to do in Chopper Command than in the world of the fast-movers), and it was an absolute money-maker. I was able to all but eliminate the airborne gripes that Avi "could not duplicate on deck, system op checks good IAW..." It was good for the troubleshooters to see what was going on real-time; it saved me trying to explain stuff to them; saved me the pain of trying to write a coherent MAF; and it save them a lot of time on deck with their ubiquitous "test sets"). It was good for Control (saved them aircraft hours, and gave them more green arrows), and it was a good deal for the troubleshooters to see SoCal from the air.
Most importantly, it gave Ops more "up" birds to go and break that same night...which led to more 2K2 action the next day.
Ah, the Circle of Life...
Meh, I'm so ancient I retired prior to the TC-4 era (drew a complete blank), so I had to look it up along with the youngsters....
"Gulfstream" by Grumman "Iron Works.
BzB, AW Gray Eagle
"Gulfstream" by Grumman "Iron Works.
BzB, AW Gray Eagle
FlyinRock
Registered User
Without reading all the posts re A4, we all have our opinions. I am one of the crusty gray haired whatever is left farts and can appreciate both sides of the arguments. A4 has provided me with some pretty solid info and we have exchanged some acerbic posts. The fact remains, he is who he claims and I think has earned the rights to say what he wants. And I'll back him up on his right to say it even when I don't agree.
Semper Fi
Rocky
Semper Fi
Rocky
Just to steer this discussion a bit, nobody is suggesting that he shouldn't have been able to give his opinion on things - it's the abusive, contemptuous approach he took to those with a differing point of view. Very different things. Someone can voice a strong opinion and even disagree with people without being an utter and complete asshole whose go to tactic is to issue insults, ad hominem attacks and impugn the patriotism of those he disagrees with. Seniority and experience don't give you the right to do those things - and he did those things, constantly.
Brett
We never could do this in my fleet A-4 Squadrons (no 2-seaters) , but on my 2 FRS IP tours, we had 2 TF-9Js in VA-125 (1962-65), & numerous TA-4J/Fs in VA-44 (1968-70). In both Squadrons, we seldom flew with an empty back seat. A ride request sign up list was maintained by flight schedules, with qual cards required for ejection seat & hi-alt. pressure chamber training. Priority was given to SOM/SOY, P/Cs & other Maint. types.
For exampke, one weekend tn '64, I had a solo inst trng X/C to NAS New York, 60 miles from my home in CT. Scbedules assigned me a TF-9J, w/ a P/C from Brooklyn in the back seat. Had a nice 3-leg hop east with lots of stick time for my Pax. Both his folks & mine were waiting to pick us up upon arrival. It seems they had met each otber, and his Parents owners of an authentic Italian Restaurant in Brooklyn, insisted we stop for a meal on our way home...which we did. Fabulous 2-hr banquet, they were so appreciative for bringing their Son home safely, as they hadn't seen him in several years. We were treated like rock stars!
Geez, I loved those X/Cs back in the day. From what I hear here on AW, these opportunities don'f exist much any more.
BzB
Leavin' CT for NLC...note tan bag/AWG pisscutter, standard X/C garb in '60s. Hard to believe, my 'little' nieces/nephews pictured are now in 40s/50s...arrrggggh!
Meh, I'm so ancient I retired prior to the TC-4 era (drew a complete blank), so I had to look it up along with the youngsters....
View attachment 10256
"Gulfstream" by Grumman "Iron Works.
BzB, AW Gray Eagle
Heck, That's the good looking cousin to the Navy TC-4C - This is on topic by the way since every A-6 person spent time in the "Tic 4"
I'm still alive and kicking....just don't get the extended time to luxuriate in extended time on AW as I had in past. As to things changing....most of the time, I'm on the cutting edge of the changes or maybe in the shadows quite removed from the traditional Naval Aviation Enterprise (NAE)...even though I moved to Pax full-time in Feb. I've just ventured deeper into the nontraditional side of "things" making it harder to relate to the rank and file of Naval Aviation in a general sense. I still come by AW quite often and enjoy the diatribe, just don't post as often, but I do liberally pass out likes for posts that impress me.....and I do miss the Mean Old Haole Man.....
FlyinRock
Registered User
Brett
without the definitive background that you allude to, are you being the editor of his posts or defining what is correct or not? I don't have a dog in this fight so the ultimate outcome doesn't matter to me. In fact, if you don't agree with my posts, you can always ban me? We all have the option of hitting NEXT and avoiding those posts that are onerous to us personally.
Semper Fi
Rocky
I define vicious personal attacks for political or philosophical differences as incorrect. Do you disagree?
Interestingly enough, another tactic used by A4s. I'm just conveying to you precisely what people had a problem with. Wasn't his opinions, it was his attitude. I'm sure you can appreciate the distinction.
Brett
FlyinRock
Registered User
Is that anything like the old days of being accused and convicted of "contemptuous looks"? Like I said, it doesn't really matter to me one way or other. It just appears like some are rather thin skinned and are looking for a concensus of opinion rather than take it to their source of irritation.
As for your "interestingly enough, another tactic used by A4's", comment, are you accusing me of not thinking for myself?
Yes I am quite aware of distinctions and am rather facile in the english language. So, are the moderators now the facilitators of who is correct and who isn't? Or, whose posts are correct or not? As I said, if someone doesn't like a post or person, they have the ability of hitting NEXT and avoiding the heartburn.
I'm really not interested in further discussion about A4's attitude or postings. He has his, I have mine.
Semper Fi
Rocky
As for your "interestingly enough, another tactic used by A4's", comment, are you accusing me of not thinking for myself?
Yes I am quite aware of distinctions and am rather facile in the english language. So, are the moderators now the facilitators of who is correct and who isn't? Or, whose posts are correct or not? As I said, if someone doesn't like a post or person, they have the ability of hitting NEXT and avoiding the heartburn.
I'm really not interested in further discussion about A4's attitude or postings. He has his, I have mine.
Semper Fi
Rocky
I think you misunderstand where I'm coming from, but it's difficult to have a discussion when you don't respond to my points. You keep bringing up this notion of who is "correct" or not and whether mods are the arbiter of correctness. I'll say again, since you don't seem to make the distinction, people can post any opinions they want, but when those people tell other members to "go fuck yourself" when there's a disagreement, then that crosses the line. Do you think that kind of behavior is acceptable, or would you rather we conduct our discourse here with a little more civility, professionalism and maturity?
That is the questions I pose to you.
Brett
That is the questions I pose to you.
Brett
FlyinRock
Registered User
"I define vicious personal attacks for political or philosophical differences as incorrect. Do you disagree?"
Brett
That is one reason I joined the USMC many years ago... to defend the right to disagree. How we disagree is open to personal interpretations. Of course if you come at me physically, I will do my utmost to show you the error of your ways. If its simply a verbal discussion or argument, I'll use whatever my intellect allows me to do. I am responding to rather an open ended discussion about likes and dislikes as regards A4's posts or responses. If he responded to one of my posts with rancor or profanity, chences are good I'd have pm'd him and made my feelings clear on a personal and private level. If he chooses to do so publicly, that is his affair. How he responds to someone else is theirs, not mine.
If you are the arbitor of civility and posts here, so be it. I have seen a variety of profanity on the different forums and few seem to be offended and accept it as the way life is and especially in the military. I try to refrain from profanity as it degrades my intent or point but if its called for, in my not som humble opinion, then I'll use it.
Perhaps we are on different pages or disagree on points. That is the way of it. We have disagreed in the past, and if I stick around here, we'll probably disagree in the future on some points. Doesn't matter to me one way or other. You have your points of reference, I have mine.
Semper Fi
Rocky
Brett
That is one reason I joined the USMC many years ago... to defend the right to disagree. How we disagree is open to personal interpretations. Of course if you come at me physically, I will do my utmost to show you the error of your ways. If its simply a verbal discussion or argument, I'll use whatever my intellect allows me to do. I am responding to rather an open ended discussion about likes and dislikes as regards A4's posts or responses. If he responded to one of my posts with rancor or profanity, chences are good I'd have pm'd him and made my feelings clear on a personal and private level. If he chooses to do so publicly, that is his affair. How he responds to someone else is theirs, not mine.
If you are the arbitor of civility and posts here, so be it. I have seen a variety of profanity on the different forums and few seem to be offended and accept it as the way life is and especially in the military. I try to refrain from profanity as it degrades my intent or point but if its called for, in my not som humble opinion, then I'll use it.
Perhaps we are on different pages or disagree on points. That is the way of it. We have disagreed in the past, and if I stick around here, we'll probably disagree in the future on some points. Doesn't matter to me one way or other. You have your points of reference, I have mine.
Semper Fi
Rocky