Leaving Vietnam vs AFG

[Random8145]

The strategic decision that transforming Afghanistan into a modern, democratic nation-state so as to prevent it from being host to terrorist organizations that could plot 9/11 style attacks was conceived by the Bush administration. That the underlying premise was wrong, and the ultimate goal was farcically unachievable, was also attributable to the Bush administration. I’m curious to hear your analysis on what other individuals or administration actions carried more weight in bringing us to this point in the conflict.

My point is that because 9/11 had happened, whoever had been in charge likely was going to do "something" regarding Afghanistan. Now the plan to make it a liberal democracy I agree was rather naive, but a goal to stabilize it and lay waste to the terrorist forces there I do not think was. And the country had become more stabilized and free. It was no foregone conclusion it need end in a big mess. In that sense, I do not see it as right to blame Bush. If we had maintained a permanent presence there to keep order, but otherwise this presence was not constantly engaged in warfare, then I would not see that as a mess. The problem is we pulled the mother hippo out of the water hole and now the baby hippos are all being attacked by the crocodiles that were lying in wait.

 

[Random8145]

I guess Iran didn't get this memo in 2019.

That's likely because Soleimani wasn't assassinated until 2020.

 

[Random8145]

Imagine having a dog that attacks a kid and hurts them. Then the parents come and demand you train your dog, and even pay for very expensive lessons for that dog. The training fails and the dog is still a danger, and they give up training it. What do the folks your dog attacked owe you?

That's not a proper analogy.

 

[Random8145]

This is a worthy read

CIA’s Former Counterterrorism Chief for the Region: Afghanistan, Not An Intelligence Failure — Something Much Worse

"While it’s certainly convenient to depict the shock and miscalculation U.S. officials claim over Afghanistan’s tragic, rapid fall to the Taliban as an intelligence failure, the reality is far worse."

www.justsecurity.org

But he likewise did not want to preside over the nightmarish scenes we’ve witnessed. Then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was the principal architect of America’s engagement with the Taliban that culminated with the catastrophic February 2020 withdrawal agreement, terms intended to get the president through the coming elections. Pompeo championed the plan despite the intelligence community’s caution that its two key objectives– securing the Taliban’s commitment to break with al-Qa’ida and pursue a peaceful resolution to the conflict — were highly unlikely.

If the Trump administration suspected that things would go to hell regardless, then I don't think Trump would have left a bunch of Americans in there without a plan to lay waste to the Taliban if they broke their promise and started killing them. He may have left a bunch of Afghans to die who had stuck their neck out for us, but I think he either would have pulled all Americans out or told the Taliban he will start smashing them if they try anything.

 

[taxi1]

We didn't give the Taliban any help

Someone did, though. What was their supply chain and source of funds? It wasn't all heroin $$$.

As per the article I linked to above, no small support came from the Paks and from the Persian Gulf.

We weren’t just fighting the Taliban.

 

[SlickAg]

How much longer will the mainstream media keep ignoring it?

Something Is Wrong with the President | National Review

Biden’s latest interview, insistence that he was incorrectly briefed, and low profile amid the Afghanistan crisis all raise troubling questions.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Griz882]

How much longer will the mainstream media keep ignoring it?

Something Is Wrong with the President | National Review

Biden’s latest interview, insistence that he was incorrectly briefed, and low profile amid the Afghanistan crisis all raise troubling questions.

www.nationalreview.com

While I'm sure Biden is doing better (health wise) then the article implies I have to admit that the WH staff had an epic fail with the image of Biden all alone in "das bunker" getting briefed did remined me a bit of this scene.

 

[wink]

While I'm sure Biden is doing better (health wise) then the article implies I have to admit that the WH staff had an epic fail with the image of Biden all alone in "das bunker" getting briefed did remined me a bit of this scene.

View attachment 32150

This administration is headed into the bunker mentality phase of the Carter Admin during the Iran Hostage Crisis.

 

[CAMike]

How much longer will the mainstream media keep ignoring it?

Something Is Wrong with the President | National Review

Biden’s latest interview, insistence that he was incorrectly briefed, and low profile amid the Afghanistan crisis all raise troubling questions.

www.nationalreview.com

The MSM will continue to ignore reality until President Dementia and his woke MIL Leadership is ousted.

 

[SlickAg]

While I'm sure Biden is doing better (health wise) then the article implies I have to admit that the WH staff had an epic fail with the image of Biden all alone in "das bunker" getting briefed did remined me a bit of this scene.

View attachment 32150

He said we don’t have any troops in Syria.

We have 900 there.

So either he lied or he forgot. That seems like a big forget for the most powerful man in the world.

Have you seen footage of him walking and talking? I’m interested to know what you’re seeing that makes you think he’s doing better than this article suggests. My own eyes and ears tell me he’s not doing great. There’s a reason why he routinely takes 3-4 day weekends and doesn’t take questions from reporters unless they’re know allies of The Cause. To my point, he looks a lot worse now than he did in CAMike’s picture above.

 

[wink]

I’m interested to know what you’re seeing that makes you think he’s doing better than this article suggests.

I would suspect he does better on better days then he is having lately. Most anyone would be affected by the stress of the current situation. For Biden it seem rather noticeable.

 

[HSMPBR]

While I'm sure Biden is doing better (health wise) then the article implies I have to admit that the WH staff had an epic fail with the image of Biden all alone in "das bunker" getting briefed did remined me a bit of this scene.

View attachment 32150

That scene reminds me of this scene;

Not at all related to Afghanistan, but hey it’s non-political fun for the AW family.

 

[HookCrew]

The PRC are licking their chops like kids at a BBQ . . . .

 

[SlickAg]

I would suspect he does better on better days then he is having lately. Most anyone would be affected by the stress of the current situation. For Biden it seem rather noticeable.

So it’s only bad when the chips are down? Perfect.

Not exactly reassuring. Also interesting that the Veep hasn’t made a peep for six days. I think she knows what’s up.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

On a good day he can kinda sorta form sentences and muddle through pre-planned softball questions from a cooperative press. When under stress, just collapses but fortunately it’s not a stressful job.