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Leaving Vietnam vs AFG

Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
cfam said:
So what begins? I asked a serious question and you’re trying to turn this into a political debate. This isn’t Biden versus Trump, this is a legitimate question of how we should have managed this withdrawal. I even said I might have missed something with regards to Trump’s withdrawal plan because I didn’t see anything specifically outlined that indicated a managed withdrawal. I’m honestly asking to be educated here.
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Fair question. I really don't know what Trump's team had in mind but there were some gaps in this withdrawl and certainly can't say he would have done better but these things were done wrong.

  1. No secured basing for possible return.
  2. No military partnership with Afghan military (we could have left some trainers and such).
  3. No, or limited, intelligence gathering capacity at the embassy.
  4. Sudden and unexpected removal of all eyes-on air power.

At the end of WWII we simply didn't leave Europe because we were afraid of communism. At the end of the Korean War we didn't leave Korea becuase we were worried about communism. At the end of the Vietnam War we maintained a robust regional presence because we were worried about communism. The entire Middle East thing is different. We have been at war there (in one form or another) since about 1980 - pretty much non-stop. I know we like to chop it up into little pieces and call them "operations" but in truth the fighting there has consumed generations of military experience. Our mistakes in Afghanistan are unique because for the first time we have shut the door as we departed - now the only way back in is to kick it open again.
 
scoolbubba

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
joe dirt said:
Sarcasm, and possibly some bitterness at being held on a boat unnecessarily when Marines were requesting DS from MEU skids…but they needed us on the ship for when the balloon goes up.
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My bad. I'm picking up what you're putting down now.
 
Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
taxi1 said:
Will they give ISIS a new home? What are the odds we do have to kick the door back in?
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Not just ISIS, they will have a home there, but several radical Islamic groups.

My guess…who knows how long? First they will attack close (think former Soviet Union) then they will attack Europe (who will try to ignore the pain) then the US - and if that attack is big enough we will strike but maybe just try the “air power” will win approach.
 
taxi1

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Griz882 said:
Not just ISIS, they will have a home there, but several radical Islamic groups.

My guess…who knows how long? First they will attack close (think former Soviet Union) then they will attack Europe (who will try to ignore the pain) then the US - and if that attack is big enough we will strike but maybe just try the “air power” will win approach.
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My fear (and what I would do if I were them) is they destabilize Pakistan and get themselves a nuke or two.
 
GroundPounder

GroundPounder

Well-Known Member
taxi1 said:
This is crazy...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427202316512514050

Never went to Kabul, but had time in Bagram and Kandahar. Hard to watch, when you recognize things.

I'll give the Taliban credit for persistence and a plan for the long game.

Will they give ISIS a new home? What are the odds we do have to kick the door back in?
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All I could think about was one of those folks chunking a grenade, or even a brick into one of the engines. That, and I am sure that someone will eventually get run over, or sucked into a jet.
 
pilot_man

pilot_man

Ex-Rhino driver
pilot
Brett327 said:
This was always going to be the outcome. If we’re looking to point fingers, Bush and his admin got us into this mess, and a long lineage of senior military leadership sustained the delusion that we were perpetually on the cusp of turning the corner. One presumes that this could have been done more gracefully, but it needed to be done.
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Not like this it wasn't. The deadline and ROE in place has put Americans at risk, and lots of them.
 
hlg6016

hlg6016

A/C Wings Here
My google fu could not give me any answers on this. Do we have any MIA's or POW's being left behind?
 
taxi1

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
pilot_man said:
Not like this it wasn't. The deadline and ROE in place has put Americans at risk, and lots of them.
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I don't think the Taliban are as surprised as we are by all of this. The insta-collapse of the Army.

I get the impression it was all pre-coordinated with various elders, and they were just waiting for the last days to launch Operation Exit Shitshow.
 
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