Ht-28???

[Brett327]

Another thing that might be different between the communities is the fact that maritime and helo pilots don't go out on their own as they do in tactical. In HSL we're a 2P for half of our sea tour, then we go through the HAC process to sign for the a/c. There's experience to bank on when you're a new guy in helos, not so much in jets when you're the dude in the cockpit. Maybe I'm talking out of my a$$, but it seems logical from my standpoint.

Single seat guys usually work in sections with a more senior pilot as lead, so that's not as big a factor as you might think.

Brett

 

[gregsivers]

Interesting. How long were the hops? I thought the MAWTS standard was 10 hours. When I went through, since we have the gas, it was four 2.5 hour hops. We did overwater, over OLF, and some work up at Camp Pen. I was guessing that the reason the HTs do 5 hops is because of gas.

In 40 we only did 7.5 hours of NVG, 3 flights. That's the minimum hours here to be an NVG pilot. All my flights were overland, depends on the IP as to what the flight is. I have yet to do any goggle flights since checking into my fleet squadron, but shouldn't be too much longer.

 

[gregsivers]

Single seat guys usually work in sections with a more senior pilot as lead, so that's not as big a factor as you might think.

Brett

Thats why I put that caveat in there. I never claimed to be a smart guy.:icon_tong

 

[Gatordev]

In 40 we only did 7.5 hours of NVG, 3 flights. That's the minimum hours here to be an NVG pilot. All my flights were overland, depends on the IP as to what the flight is. I have yet to do any goggle flights since checking into my fleet squadron, but shouldn't be too much longer.

I wonder if NAVRIP cut the req back. I think I might have heard something about that, now that I think about it.

 

[llnick2001]

Interesting. How long were the hops? I thought the MAWTS standard was 10 hours. When I went through, since we have the gas, it was four 2.5 hour hops. We did overwater, over OLF, and some work up at Camp Pen. I was guessing that the reason the HTs do 5 hops is because of gas.

The minimum total NVG time for us (HT's) is 8.7 but the hours per x in the MPTS comes out to 9.2. I think most people get a little more though. I ended up with about 10. We also got a 1.3 in the sim.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Are NVG's optional for helo pilots in the fleet? If not (I thought they were required) wouldn't it make sense to have more, if not all, flights in the RAG on NVG's?

 

[skidkid]

ok back to the HT's teaching warfighting skills I will way it again, There is nothing you can do in a TH-57 that will have aplicability to a Fleet mission (for any platform)except say it with me: Basic Insturments, no hover landings, formation flying and an NVG exposure (dont kid yourself into thinking less than 10 hours is anything more than that) and the HTs are already doing that so it aint broke.

 

[phrogdriver]

Are NVG's optional for helo pilots in the fleet? If not (I thought they were required) wouldn't it make sense to have more, if not all, flights in the RAG on NVG's?

"Optional" in the sense that oil is optional in a motor vehicle. j/k

In all the Marine Corps helo communities all tactical night flights are on NVGs. However, there are times when it is night and they are not used, generally in administrative movements or during instrument flight. Also, there are training events which vary by platform that require unaided night flight. Examples are unaided boat landings and unaided CALs. These are practiced more for contingency purposes.

I do believe that having solid piloting skills unaided at night makes one a better pilot overall. 6 hours a year is actually required by OPNAV. I'm a little skeptical of the NVG training in HTs. 1)How much crossover is there? 2) Are we saving training time at the FRS or somehow enhancing training there? If not, NVGs in HTs aren't that productive.

 

[skidkid]

The OPNAV 6 hours of unaided time is no longer required to the joy of goggle cripples everywhere though I never heard this made an issue anywhere.

 

[phrogdriver]

The OPNAV 6 hours of unaided time is no longer required to the joy of goggle cripples everywhere though I never heard this made an issue anywhere.

Was that a 3710 "T" change? I'm so embarrassed.

I really do like the occasional unaided hop, though. Very relaxing.

 

[Flash]

Prop/Helo Trainers = Commercial Aircraft with UHF and TACAN added.
Jet Trainer = British Attack Jet with second seat added

If you are talking about the Hawk it was designed from the beginning to be a jet trainer. Only later were single seat versions developed for the attack mission.

 

[Flash]

This is actually a pretty interesting discussion, and Brett brings up a good point regarding the applicability for all platforms...I am struggling with the same issues going through AF UPT
About 30% of students in advanced UPT are a combination of reserve, guard and Navy. Most of the reserve and guard units are Air refuelers, and all the Navy guys are future E-6 guys...yet the syllabus requires that we complete 6 Low Level and 4 air Drop flights. While it may be useful for some, 30% of students don't need to do it. That basic sense applies to the helo community...why waste the money to introduce something that could be taught better in the RAG

I had the same issues with the syllabus at Randolph. When I went trhough one of the main courses of study was radar work. It had no application to any of the Navy guys, about 40-50% of the students, because we would never work on the radar. I actually enjoyed the radar flights at Randolph and VT-86 but I thought they could have taught us something different. But, it did reinforce the foundation for good navigation skills and I ended up appreciating it for what it was, a chance to learn more about navigating and flying.

While you will probably not use those skills in the E-6 it gives you a braoder set of skills and I think it will make you a better aviator in the end. Plus, why complain about extra flight time? Honestly, if they cut that out for the Navy and tanker guys they probably would not replace it with anything, it would save money. Appreciate the flight time, hours are always good!

 

[Pags]

Kind of late to the discusion, but here's my 2 cents:

The missions for the Sea Services' helos are so wide and varied that you'd be hard pressed to find something more "tactical" to teach that would be applicable to all the communities. Should we teach night form? Night low level? Night SAR? Night DLQs? ASW? Gun Patterns? What exactly is it that the AF and Army are teaching that we aren't?

And for all the help that goggles can be, my community at the least, still has a 1hr night currency plus unaided DLQs and Vertrep. So the need for a solid night flying background still exists.

In the RAG, we didn't do too much in the way of tactical stuff. Just a few overland/form events. All of more involved tactical stuff is taught by the wing weapons school as it's required. While Navy helos are currently operating overland, this doesn't change the need for traditional Navy helo missions. and for every air ambulance det, there's still going to be a need for helos to run admirals back and forth, to vertrep that pallet of soda, to sit in starboard D and wait for Squid to punch out. Not exactly glamorous missions that require the wearing of tactical patches, but they're still important missions in the grand scheme.

 

[e6bflyer]

Appreciate the flight time, hours are always good!

...unless they are flown in the Air Force training command.

 

[Flash]

...unless they are flown in the Air Force training command.

You forget that I went through Air Farce training too, there are worse things.......