What is it that you like about the Marines again Kim? I dont remeber you ever having any helpfull, usefull, interesting or (god forbid) Suportive things to say about anything. So why is it your here- Your cranky attitude will not last- I dont think your ever gonna join the ranks- so cut your losses and leave. And dont- as in DO NOT bother giving me your normal smart alic comments trying to cut me and every one else down- your unsat and not worth the digital ink you waist.
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For you liberals out there...
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I concur. Many of us have taken the oath to support and defend the U.S. constitution, and to obey the orders of the president and the officers appointed over us. If someone has already taken the same oath, or will do so in the near future when he puts on the uniform, but yet has personal agenda or views conflicting with those, that person needs to think really hard before trying to propagate such agenda or views. If his liberal view, be it political or religious, is going to potentially affect his ability to follow orders, or that of others in the field, or even the cohesion of our military, then as the webmaster suggests, that person needs to STFU about it.
Since we also discussed freedom of speech in this thread, this is what the liberals/neo-hippies in San Francisco did with it in one of their anti-war protests, and I have to warn you, it's extremely disturbing:
http://sf.indymedia.org/uploads/1_shoot_officers.jpg
Notice that some of those men cover their face at their own protest. I dare say that at any support our troops protest" NO ONE would have their face covered. Maybe they are ashamed of what they are doing, and rightly so.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
--Edmund Burke
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
--Edmund Burke
megan620
EA-6B ECMO/IA Wife
FLMarine...I wasn't implying anyone had to read anyone's previous posts to be on this forum....just thought I'd save you the trouble of the inevitable debate with Kimphil on this subject, since he and I and others posted in another forum with a similar topic about a month ago. But, if you feel so obliged to post....then of course, no one is stopping you & on a side note I enjoy reading what everyone has to say on these topics, so don't think I was in anyway trying to dicourage your posts...and if you realized that's what I was saying...well, then ignore this post of mine! 
Kimphil-thanks for not harming any Republicans or Commander in Chiefs in your last post....I thought that comment was rather amusing!
Kimphil-thanks for not harming any Republicans or Commander in Chiefs in your last post....I thought that comment was rather amusing!
patbrown08
Registered User
Boy is the blood running a little warm around here. Last I checked, when I signed on the dotted line they didn't ask me to turn in my brain or my spine and they didn't make me swear an allegiance to the conservative platform or the Republican party. I am sure that no one was raising this much of a stink about disagreeing with Clinton in the 90s (I guess everyone int he millitary must have changed party affiliation in 2000)just as the liberal media and hollywood were silent during the many conflicts of Clinton. I hope the gov't isn't paying too much for the education all you folks are getting, because I would bet they were hoping for thinking officers not sheep. I don't remember anywhere in the UCMJ did it state that you must agree with all the policies of the gov't. What you can't do is put on your uniform and go to the local protest or rally and use your free speech. You see people will start to think that you are representing the policies and viewpoints of your service. And I wouldn't recommend going to the local TV station or newspaper reporter and bad mouthing the current Commander-in-Chief. You may remember a few high ranking officers who found there way to retirement for doing such in the 90s. But if you think for a second that everyone in the military is sittig around the wardroom table or the flight deck or ERUL and singing the praises of the leadership in unison like drones, then you are probably living in the wrong country at the wrong time. That is the kind of thing you might see in Hunt for Red October movies on Russian subs. But hey if I can't sleep tonight then atleast I know where I can go when I am looking for sheep to count.
esday1
He'll dazzle you with terms like "Code Red."
Warning: long post
My guess is that you took a survey of who those protesters voted for in the last election, very few of them voted for Gore. Most of them probably voted for Nader, if at all. And there are a lot of "liberals" out there who pretty pissed off at them as well. So the term "liberal" can have a lot of different meanings. A lot of people on the more conservative side of the political spectrum use this term to lump together pro-military, free-market moderately liberal Democrats with the anti-American, anti-globalization quasi-Socialist Greens who are out there holding "Amerika is a terrorist state" signs. Usually when the word "liberal" is used in this way it's either to mislead or due to, for lack of a more polite word, willful ignorance. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of people who would identify themselves as "liberal" in some sense who serve and have proudly served in the armed forces, and they deserve a little bit of respect.
When you take the commissioning oath, you pledge to serve your country and obey the orders of the commander in chief, not to serve a particular party. The proper question is whether you would be willing to make that commitment regardless of the political affilation of the president. For me the answer is yes. I get badgered on this point pretty consistently by my family (who are very far to the left and are pretty dead set against me joining the Marines), and I give pretty much the same answer every time. So, in a sense I would agree with what kn said earlier, that you should serve only if your political affiliation would not prevent you from carrying out your orders. However, that goes for both parties. You probably shouldn't join if you wouldn't be willing to carry out the orders of President George W. Bush, but you probably shouldn't join if you wouldn't have been willing to carry out the orders of President Bill Clinton either. The party that controls the White House has changed, on average, once every 10 years in the last century. If you've got a 10 year fixed-wing aviation contract, that means there's a pretty decent chance that you'll wind up taking orders from a CinC who doesn't share your political philosophy for part of that time.
That doesn't mean you have to like the CinC or think the same way he does, though. I think it's perfectly fine to express your opinion as long as you don't do it in an inappropriate place or in a way that interferes with your duty. As I've said before, internet discussion boards are about as far removed from actual combat as you can get, so this is a pretty innocuous place to sound off.
To recap: you serve your country, not your party. If you have a problem with that, you can do something else with your time other than serving in the military, like flaming people on internet discussion boards.
"Peace on earth to men of goodwill. All others stand by."
My guess is that you took a survey of who those protesters voted for in the last election, very few of them voted for Gore. Most of them probably voted for Nader, if at all. And there are a lot of "liberals" out there who pretty pissed off at them as well. So the term "liberal" can have a lot of different meanings. A lot of people on the more conservative side of the political spectrum use this term to lump together pro-military, free-market moderately liberal Democrats with the anti-American, anti-globalization quasi-Socialist Greens who are out there holding "Amerika is a terrorist state" signs. Usually when the word "liberal" is used in this way it's either to mislead or due to, for lack of a more polite word, willful ignorance. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of people who would identify themselves as "liberal" in some sense who serve and have proudly served in the armed forces, and they deserve a little bit of respect.
When you take the commissioning oath, you pledge to serve your country and obey the orders of the commander in chief, not to serve a particular party. The proper question is whether you would be willing to make that commitment regardless of the political affilation of the president. For me the answer is yes. I get badgered on this point pretty consistently by my family (who are very far to the left and are pretty dead set against me joining the Marines), and I give pretty much the same answer every time. So, in a sense I would agree with what kn said earlier, that you should serve only if your political affiliation would not prevent you from carrying out your orders. However, that goes for both parties. You probably shouldn't join if you wouldn't be willing to carry out the orders of President George W. Bush, but you probably shouldn't join if you wouldn't have been willing to carry out the orders of President Bill Clinton either. The party that controls the White House has changed, on average, once every 10 years in the last century. If you've got a 10 year fixed-wing aviation contract, that means there's a pretty decent chance that you'll wind up taking orders from a CinC who doesn't share your political philosophy for part of that time.
That doesn't mean you have to like the CinC or think the same way he does, though. I think it's perfectly fine to express your opinion as long as you don't do it in an inappropriate place or in a way that interferes with your duty. As I've said before, internet discussion boards are about as far removed from actual combat as you can get, so this is a pretty innocuous place to sound off.
To recap: you serve your country, not your party. If you have a problem with that, you can do something else with your time other than serving in the military, like flaming people on internet discussion boards.
"Peace on earth to men of goodwill. All others stand by."
esday1
He'll dazzle you with terms like "Code Red."
By the way, anybody who is actually taking the stuff that's being said on this board seriously, and not just wasting time to procrastinate on finishing their senior thesis, needs to look at this:
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/463c5922
"Peace on earth to men of goodwill. All others stand by."
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/463c5922
"Peace on earth to men of goodwill. All others stand by."
For those who haven't read the UCMJ yet I'll post the part about bashing the President and others.
888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
--Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.--
This doesn't mean you have to agree with what the President is doing but you cannot badmouth him if you are a commissioned officer. As for thinking for ourselves, we do that quite well, thank you. I consider it our duty as officers to talk about current affairs, with fellow officers and NOT TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. I have had many disagreements and arguments among fellow officers about Bush's actions and policies. One thing we are not doing is sitting around like cold war Russians reciting how great communism is. When I am in the public and someone asks me what I think of the war I tell them that I do not have the luxury of being able to say my opinion about it because people may think that is the official viewpoint of the Marine Corps. I am not serving in the Marine Corps because of the Republican Party; I am serving in the Marine Corps to protect the Constitution and the principles of the United States. I also don't know any officers who are serving because of the Republican Party. If you're having trouble sleeping tonight you can find sheep in the civilian world because all you will find in the Marines are wolfs.
d
888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
--Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.--
This doesn't mean you have to agree with what the President is doing but you cannot badmouth him if you are a commissioned officer. As for thinking for ourselves, we do that quite well, thank you. I consider it our duty as officers to talk about current affairs, with fellow officers and NOT TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. I have had many disagreements and arguments among fellow officers about Bush's actions and policies. One thing we are not doing is sitting around like cold war Russians reciting how great communism is. When I am in the public and someone asks me what I think of the war I tell them that I do not have the luxury of being able to say my opinion about it because people may think that is the official viewpoint of the Marine Corps. I am not serving in the Marine Corps because of the Republican Party; I am serving in the Marine Corps to protect the Constitution and the principles of the United States. I also don't know any officers who are serving because of the Republican Party. If you're having trouble sleeping tonight you can find sheep in the civilian world because all you will find in the Marines are wolfs.
d
esday and patbrown (nice login!) are right. This is conservative PC bull****. If I read between the lines correctly, your are saying if I am NOT a Republican, I shouldn't be in the military. If you've read my previous posts, I think we've clearly established that Democrats, perhaps even Greens can be excellent officers. The problem isn't that I have strong opinions and have expressed them, the REAL problem is that they disagree with the majority of people on this forum. If I expressed opinions similar to yours or the President, this wouldn't be an issue.
I'll make you a deal: I'll defend the greens, anti-globalization and anti-war protesters if you defend skinheads, white supremacists, all of Pat Robertson's intolerant religious comments, as well as Pat Buchanan's xenophobic views. Let's add conservatives' laissez faire attitudesthat facilitated Enron's rip-off of its stockholders. Oh, don't forget Trent Lott, Timothy McVeigh and all those nutty militia people out West.
What? You're going to say these conservative viewpoints don't represent your beliefs? Too bad. If you're going to burden us with defending all liberals, I going to burden you with defending all conservatives.
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"What would Jesus drive?"
Duh. A truck -- Jesus was a carpenter.
O-man,
Can't you and I just get along? It's obvious to everyone that you can't take me on in polite discourse, even with half my brain tied behind my back. So why don't you shut your fat mouth until you have something intelligent and meaningful (I won't hold my breath) to say instead of something denigrating and personal. Good to go?
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"What would Jesus drive?"
Duh. A truck -- Jesus was a carpenter.
I would like to submit a new question for BOTH versions of the ASTB in multiple sections of each test. Do you consider yourself Republican? yes = application continues, no = application stops immediately!
Eliminate distractions, focus on your goals and visualize what you hope to accomplish.
Eliminate distractions, focus on your goals and visualize what you hope to accomplish.
wildflyin69
Grad of OCS 187 Charlie Co. 3rd Plt.
esday, that post was horrible...hilarious, but horrible. lol....
"Push the stick foward, the houses get bigger; pull back, the houses get smaller... unless you keep pulling back, then they get bigger again."
"Push the stick foward, the houses get bigger; pull back, the houses get smaller... unless you keep pulling back, then they get bigger again."
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