For You AF VT-3 Guys

[ChuckMK23]

FTI for VT-3 T-38 Prep

From CNATRA instruction P-367
"FLIGHT TRAINING
INSTRUCTION
TALON PREP
USAF T-38 Track Intermediate
T-34C

103. TRANSITION FROM NAVY TO AIR FORCE FLIGHT TRAINING
The purpose of our Air Force T-38 Intermediate program is to introduce you to the Air Force
training environment as soon as possible. Make no mistake about it, your task is very
challenging, your T-37 brethren have been brought up under this system for six months and they
are experts at it. Our goal is to make you as close to on par with them as we possibly can. The
transition to the Air Force training environment is one of the greatest challenges for T-34
students going to T-38s. Not only are you going from the Navy to the Air Force way of life, but
also you are trying to tame the “White Rocket” (T-38), flying at much faster airspeeds than you
are used to.
Now that you have been selected for the specialized fighter track, you will only fly with fighter
pilots, bomber pilots or T-38-trained First-Assignment Instructor Pilots (FAIPs) after you arrive
at Vance. The T-38 instructors are going to be tough on you, they will expect you to be totally
committed to making it through the program. If you give anything less than that, you will be
identified and eliminated. The IPs at Vance, like Whiting, are not expecting you to be “Chuck
Yeager,” but they are expecting hard work and effort. Attitude is everything in the fighter world
and if you have a reputation as a hard charger, then everyone will break their backs trying to help
you; likewise, if you have a reputation as less than a hard charger, no one will want to waste their
time with you. Now, let us identify some aspects of this new world you are about to enter.
a. Your Flight
Unlike students at Whiting, you will go through the syllabus together as a class. Your class
will be about 6-9 students. The Air Force pilot training system is very fast paced and they are
very exact about when you will start training and when you will graduate. In Air Force pilot
training, the timeline is everything. You can expect to hit the ground running once the formal
syllabus starts. The good news is that you are not going through all this by yourself, you are
going through with your flightmates/classmates. The whole class will be on the same schedule
for the majority of your time there. You will all show up at the same time for the formal brief
(more on this later) and you will all leave at the same time (when you are on “formal release”).
You can expect to spend all day at the squadron, about 10-12 hours per day, but do not worry,
you will be busy all day. As soon as you start flying, you will be “opted” (optioned for, meaning
you can be scheduled for one or the other of at least two types of events, i.e., flight and EP or
instrument sim) for at least two events a day (flight/sim, sim/sim, flight/flight). Your flightmates
are crucial; you will all have to work together to get through this challenging syllabus.
Teamwork applies; group studying, “pattern parties,” etc. are not just good ideas, but essential to
making it through the program. Your class goal is to get everyone through to graduation.

 

[Physicx]

If you want first hand info go to baseops.com and do a search.There are lots of guys who have come from Whiting.If you have the grades and there is an opening you can get your first choice.It usually works in favor of the student because there is less competion.There is a journal of a F-16 pilot who went to Whiting and its very good.If you have not seen it I will post it if you want.There are downsides to both sides of training at a navy base compared to air force.It takes longer at whiting but you don't have to stay there for 12 hours.EP's are done in a the plane instead of stand up's in class.Most people would say that its better to do it in a plane but thats up the indivisual.Either way its going to be stressful and you should focus on getting your wings.Good luck.

 

[zippy]

Sure there are factors that play a vital role in whether one gets a 38 track, but with that considered, if one base offers a better shot at the Talon, then why not choose that one? This is exactly what I’m trying to figure out right now.

Obviously you've given this a lot of thought, but what are your chances of getting your first choice of bases anyways? Is the Air Force pretty accomodating to your wishes, or is it like any other service where the needs of the service come first? I mean, if the person assigning your slot is just going to spend 10 seconds looking at the sheet you spent forever and a day complining before they put you name next to the base that needs the most studs to class up- is it really worth all the agony? I mean, there is nothing wrong with planning but I really wouldn't spend a huge amount of time on it.

If you want first hand info go to baseops.com and do a search.There are lots of guys who have come from Whiting.If you have the grades and there is an opening you can get your first choice.It usually works in favor of the student because there is less competion.There is a journal of a F-16 pilot who went to Whiting and its very good.If you have not seen it I will post it if you want.There are downsides to both sides of training at a navy base compared to air force.It takes longer at whiting but you don't have to stay there for 12 hours.EP's are done in a the plane instead of stand up's in class.Most people would say that its better to do it in a plane but thats up the indivisual.Either way its going to be stressful and you should focus on getting your wings.Good luck.

Just to recap...

You all have been very helpful to me and my wife and we appreciate all of your input. I joined this forum recently and have been a regular at baseops.net. However, it is safe to say that the "welcome" we have received thus far has been superior.

 

[THRILLER]

Obviously you've given this a lot of thought, but what are your chances of getting your first choice of bases anyways? Is the Air Force pretty accomodating to your wishes, or is it like any other service where the needs of the service come first? I mean, if the person assigning your slot is just going to spend 10 seconds looking at the sheet you spent forever and a day complining before they put you name next to the base that needs the most studs to class up- is it really worth all the agony? I mean, there is nothing wrong with planning but I really wouldn't spend a huge amount of time on it.

Zippy,

As far as the base selection goes...you hit the nail on the head. AFPC is who processes our requests and although they do take our requests into consideration, it basically comes down to where they need people.

Having said that, almost everyone, within the past two pilot classes here at my Detachment, have been put in either their #1 or #2 base preferences. A majority received their #1.

As for how my selection will go...I really can do nothing but make the best selection that I can, and cross my fingers. However, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it. After all, I didn't sign up to fly...what truly matters are those "gold bars" and the chance to be a great officer. Flying has been my dream since I was 13 and I'm just blessed to even get a shot at AF Pilot Training...especially with the AF restructuring going on right now.

Times are hard for Officers and Enlisted in the AF, so believe me, I count my blessings every day.

All-in-all, Zippy you are dead-on with your assumption about the base selection. In the end, it will come down to where the AF needs me...and I'm absolutely fine with that. I'm just going to do everything that I can, on my side of the house, to make the best selection that I can....

No regrets


PEACE and thank you Sir,
THRILLER

BTW- Thanks for the recap

 

[Spin]

Sqeeze ... sorry man .... thought that it was implied that I was talkin bout the Air Force IPs at Vance ... and Thriller ... the post was about his time at Vance. That doesn't necessarily mean that you'll have the same experience but this gives you one point of view.

Also, as far as gaming the system ... NO ONE can game it but you're stupid if you don't try and control WHAT YOU CAN control (i.e. busting your ass in Forms if you want jets or seeing which base has a better selection rate for your desired platform) to give you a better shot at getting what you want. That's just being proactive. Yeah crap is changing all the time but it doesn't hurt to try and research.

Peace,

-Spin

 

[squorch2]

"You're stupid if you don't try and control what you can"

Historical rates are crap. You can't know how many slots for whatever platform it is you want are going to be available on your selection date. Nor can you know how many other studs are going to be selecting that day. The only things you CAN control are 1) crappy beach (south texas) or nice beach (north florida) and 2) grades. Focus on that.

 

[THRILLER]

"You're stupid if you don't try and control what you can"

Historical rates are crap. You can't know how many slots for whatever platform it is you want are going to be available on your selection date. Nor can you know how many other studs are going to be selecting that day. The only things you CAN control are 1) crappy beach (south texas) or nice beach (north florida) and 2) grades. Focus on that.

Squorch2,

First, I think that Spin was right on the money with his comment.

BTW
?????? What are you talking about with the #1 (South Texas) or #2 (North Florida) thing. Not to be blunt, but did you read all the posts before posting that message?

Furthermore,
Although I agree with your statement that "You can't know how many slots for whatever platform it is you want are going to be available on your selection date", I disagree with your statement that Historical Rates are "Crap". Sure, things can change, but almost all us AF guys look at Historical rates prior to making our "wish-list" for UPT. It's called doing your homework...sometimes it pays off...sometimes things change. No one can control that.


Peace,
THRILLER

 

[squorch2]

First, I think that Spin was right on the money with his comment.

Super.

What are you talking about with the #1 (South Texas) or #2 (North Florida) thing.

That's more a response to Spin, than any comment on AF training, which I don't know about. All of my comments pertain to Navy training. South Texas and North Florida are the location of the two Navy primary training areas.

As for gaming the system: the Navy and Air Force both work pretty hard to reduce the "where you trained affects what you select" factor. The Navy uses factors like the squadron multiplier to normalize the NSS across different grading standards. Yeah, we like to think that standards are the same for everyone (i.e., CTS), but how can you quantify things like headwork and SA?

At any rate. Factors beyond your control will affect your training. Focus on the things you can control. The base you go to might or might not affect your scores, but it will affect your QoL.

 

[vvmountainvv]

THRILLER-

you can call me anything you like, man.

as far as if my advice would be to go to moody; all i am really saying is that primary is 6 months long, and realistically, where you go doesn't have THAT big an impact on what you select. HOW you perform where ever it is you do primary will have a bigger impact. so be good. if you want to have a nice beach and a more lax schedule, sure, come to whiting. but after 6 months of that you will have to spool up to the AF UPT way. if you like south GA or north OK and don't want to have to PCS halfway through UPT and learn a new way of training, then go to the UPT base of your choice.

to boil it down, yeah, if you go to a UPT base for primary then life will probably not be as sweet as if you had gone to whiting. but, once you hit advanced, doing primary at a UPT base will pay off pretty well for you vice making the transition. pick your poison, either way you will put in the hours and effort to get your wings. don't forget to have fun in there some where.

- ( )

 

[THRILLER]

Mountain,

Just to tap into your cranium a little more...
You mentioned that you would choose Moody. Can you elaborate a little bit on why choose Moody.

Also, (and correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't Moody offer T-38 training there. So basically I would be at Moody throughout all phases of training...correct?


THRILLER

 

[THRILLER]

Spin,

Do you have a good contact or know of what the most recent Track Selects were for VT-3 AF guys?

THRILLER

BTW, anyone feel free to jump in if you have some info on this :icon_smil

 

[vvmountainvv]

thrill-

i wasn't really saying i would choose moody, i was replying to your statement about going to moody over whiting. i think the focus here is your decision between doing primary at whiting vs. a UPT base.

i'm not even totally clear on the UPT situation at moody, i hear about guys going there but when you search for it on af.mil, the only unit that comes up is a rescue wing. but i know UPT has been done there in the past. you should check it out.

S/F

 

[Venom-0]

Thriller,
Pack up and go to Moody. I'm probably heading there in a few weeks and one of the few Navy guys that actually wanted to go there. I've lived in Valdosta, GA for over 6 years and used to watch Vipers and Hogs fly out of there all the time and then the Talons and Texans starting in 2001-2002 I believe. I have 2 of my Navy friends (also from Valdosta) who went through Moody and Loved the experience. Both ended up getting Jets, one is now at VFA-106 training in Super Hornets and the other is about to get winged at Kingsville, TX. I personally would love to fly jets but the way things are going, I'll be happy to fly anything the Navy offers. Moody isn't a bad place at all...The city is real nice and so is the base itself. It surely will be awesome to fly the T-6 Texan as a primary aircraft. My advice, go to Moody..Work Hard and you might get what you want.

Have fun making up your mind....Well back to studying for the last API test (FRR)....Yeehaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

 

[THRILLER]

Venom,

Do you know of (or know anyone) any AF guys at Moody right now that you might be able to get me some contact info on?

I'd really appreciate it bro,

THRILLER


Mountain,

Your right, I remember doing a search on af.mil and had a hard time coming up with their Flight Training Squadrons. I finally came across some info on Moody and they do Fly T-6's and also T-38's for UPT guys.

THRILLER

 

[Venom-0]

Venom,

Do you know of (or know anyone) any AF guys at Moody right now that you might be able to get me some contact info on?

I'd really appreciate it bro,

THRILLER



THRILLER

Sorry man, one of my friends (AF Guy) graduated Moody in April 2004. Don't know where he is right now though. I know he got T-1's out of there but he wanted to fly the C-17 I think. I don't think I know any AF dudes currently attending Moody.