Female Navy Student Shot in Pensacola

[Treetop Flyer]

Since you're in a mood today.

Any statistic pertaining to or relating to race which is presented at the beginning of an idea in order to support the kid some how "had it coming" or that tries to obfuscate the seriousness of a particular situation by comparing it to another race could theoretically be construed as racist.

"Hey, I'm no racist but blacks kill more white people than the other way around."

The difference is black people usually go to jail for it.

That’s using a statistic to make a point you think is racist. A statistic is a statistic, and carries no perception of racial superiority.

Whites are killed overwhelmingly by whites. Blacks are killed overwhelmingly by blacks. Blacks kill whites at a higher rate than whites kill blacks. Those are facts, and are in no way “racist”.

Of course none of that has anything to do with this particular case.

 

[CWO_change]

Certain evidence like what exactly? What could he possibly have done in that empty house to deserve to die?

No one in this thread has claimed that Ahmaud deserved to die for any reason. You continuing to make such a claim via your questions does not change this point, though it does make it difficult to have any honest conservation with you.

 

[wlawr005]

You’re free to think that, but statistics show that you are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime. If someone breaks into my house, they’re getting shot between the eyes. If they make it out of my house, it’s their lucky day because I’m calling the cops.

What violent crime? He walked into an empty house, unarmed.

 

[wlawr005]

No one in this thread has claimed that Ahmaud deserved to die for any reason. You continuing to make such a claim via your questions does not change this point, though it does make it difficult to have any honest conservation with you.

If anyone here sees this as anything other than two white dudes who armed themselves and purposely assaulted and eventually murdered an unarmed kid for anything other than being in the wrong neighborhood then there's no honesty to be had.

More importantly, if we (white people) keep justifying and making excuses for this kind of shit then nothing will ever, ever change.

 

[CWO_change]

If anyone here sees this as anything other than two white dudes who armed themselves and purposely assaulted and eventually murdered an unarmed kid for anything other than being in the wrong neighborhood then there's no honesty to be had.

You can continue to write that, but if you can provide no evidence to support such a contention, it doesn't really bolster your point. Yours is an emotional appeal based on your belief as to what you think happened based on your view that the McMichaels racially targeted Ahmaud because he was black and they were white, even though you know nothing about the MiMichaels. But, ironically, that's nothing more than you prejudging the McMichaels on account of race. Again, if you have actual evidence to support that the McMichaels racially profiled Ahmaud, please bring it forward.

 

[RedFive]

You honestly think race played no part? Have you ever been to Georgia bud?

My ex was from Georgia and graduated high school in the early 2000s where she told me they had a segregated prom because....Georgia.

I'll say that again. Segregated. Prom. 2000s. Georgia.

And yeah, I used to go into houses under construction as a kid all the time. Never got shot. #HollywoodHills #NotBlack

Reserve judgement all you want @CWO_change, but it's impressively recreant to imply that there might be a good reason for getting shot and killed in this situation. Shame on the rest of us for respecting a living being's right to live and having regard for the legal process. There were many non-violent options to resolve this situation. This isn't court, I'll not waste my time trying to prove it to you because you clearly lack the ability to think critically -- though you've certainly convinced yourself that you're oh-so-smart.

Those two will get their day in court, unlike Ahmaud (if he even did anything). And that's the fucking problem.

 

[wlawr005]

You're right, I can't prove that it was race related. But you can't prove it wasn't so....I'll go with my gut.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

What violent crime? He walked into an empty house, unarmed.

No, the violent crime he became a victim of. Whether it be drugs or home invasions, your chances of becoming a victim of a violent crime increase. If you live a life of crime you take on a greater risk to yourself. If he does have a history of home invasions, then unfortunately for him, he ran up against to guys who had as much regard for the law as he did. You say that burglary isn’t punishable by death, but it is depending on the house you break in to. If he was breaking into houses, he shouldn’t have been. These guys shouldn’t have confronted him and they’re guilty.

 

[wlawr005]

The only thing that kid had a history of was being black, especially to the two guys that "recognized" him. Unfortunately that's enough to get you killed for some stupid shit these days in America.

You think if he was some career violent criminal that those cops would have sat on that info? That would've been the first thing they leaked to the press to save their asses. Not that his criminal history has any bearing on the case at all. I don’t believe his constitutional rights decline proportionately as his likelihood of meeting a violent demise increases.

 

[Brett327]

How is questioning and waiting for the full record to present itself before reaching a conclusion defending the McMichaels? As I've mentioned, the available evidence that has been released so far leads me to believe that the McMichaels acted in a way inconsistent with the law and that a charge of felony murder seems appropriate so far, but that there are still some unknowns. And if certain facts regarding the knowledge of the McMichaels of Ahmaud's presence in the house do come to light, then we are not dealing with an unlawful stop or killing. Hence, my bringing up the second video. Given that the second video deals with a set of facts that happened on the day of the incident (again, it may very well be irrelevant if the McMichaels knew nothing about Ahmaud's presence in the house), it is worthy of discussion IMO.

Don't be coy. You could just as easily taken your premise that "we don't know all the facts" to support an interpretation favorable to Ahmaud... but you didn't do that. If your stance is that we don't know all the facts, then why not just STFU about it instead of hinting that the murderers in this case might have been justified if we only knew more. I'm someone who tends to downplay unwarranted accusations of racism, but your hot take on this case doesn't paint you in the most favorable light. It might be nice, in the absence of all the facts, to give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who got murdered, and not to the murderers.

 

[zippy]

What violent crime? He walked into an empty house, unarmed.

That’s a past time for the folks near new housing developments...

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

The only thing that kid had a history of was being black, especially to the two guys that "recognized" him. Unfortunately that's enough to get you killed for some stupid shit these days in America.

You think if he was some career violent criminal that those cops would have sat on that info? That would've been the first thing they leaked to the press to save their asses. Not that his criminal history has any bearing on the case at all. I don’t believe his constitutional rights decline proportionately as his likelihood of meeting a violent demise increases.

As someone who has come out and said these guys were wrong and this was unacceptable, and was still labeled a racist by you, I want to know what your opinion was of the Michael Brown case.

 

[wlawr005]

I don’t think you are necessarily racist, but your point about being a career criminal is one often used when justifying the incredible stupidity displayed in cases like this.

I'm not an expert on Michael Brown but I've got two opinions on the matter:

1) Nothing about the tragedy did anything to help race relations in this country. Circumstances aside, a high school kid got shot six times for stealing a pack of cigars. He was wrong for assaulting Officer Wilson, but Wilson had ample opportunity to defuse the situation and wait for backup. This was undoubtedly an error in law enforcement more than a race crime.

2) Officer Wilson was an acting law enforcement agent, actively engaged in apprehending a criminal. He was provided an accurate description of a person who had recently committed a crime. He was justified in attempting to detain Michael Brown, although I don't think he was justified in killing him. Again, he could've just stayed in the car and waited for backup. In my opinion, he made a bad situation worse. These two idiots in Georgia were a self-appointed, modern day lynch mob.

The most important observation I have is the two cases are opposite sides of the same wheel. We live in a country where a large portion of the African American community distrusts law enforcement. In that same country, two white guys didn't even get questioned after assaulting and murdering a black kid basically for just looking like any other black kid.

This shit is real. And trying to thumb your nose at it by even hinting that he was statistically in for it or saying the McMichaels must have known something no one else knew (this magical exculpatory evidence we're all waiting for) only makes the distrust and contempt from the other side of the aisle worse.

It's got to change. We've got to stop blaming people who get killed in the act of committing a crime for simply being a criminal. The justice system is biased enough as it is....the killings have to stop. That kid didn't break into shit, he didn't steal shit, and he's dead. Nothing else matters and I hope his family finds swift justice.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

I don’t think you are necessarily racist, but your point about being a career criminal is one often used when justifying the incredible stupidity displayed in cases like this.

I'm not an expert on Michael Brown but I've got two opinions on the matter:

1) Nothing about the tragedy did anything to help race relations in this country. Circumstances aside, a high school kid got shot six times for stealing a pack of cigars. He was wrong for assaulting Officer Wilson, but Wilson had ample opportunity to defuse the situation and wait for backup. This was undoubtedly an error in law enforcement more than a race crime.

2) Officer Wilson was an acting law enforcement agent, actively engaged in apprehending a criminal. He was provided an accurate description of a person who had recently committed a crime. He was justified in attempting to detain Michael Brown, although I don't think he was justified in killing him. Again, he could've just stayed in the car and waited for backup. In my opinion, he made a bad situation worse.

The most important observation I have is the two cases are opposite sides of the same wheel. We live in a country where a large portion of the African American community distrusts law enforcement. In that same country, two white guys didn't even get questioned after assaulting and murdering a black kid basically for just looking like any other black kid.

This shit is real. And trying to thumb your nose at it by even hinting that he was statistically in for it or saying the McMichaels must have known something no one else knew (this magical exculpatory evidence we're all waiting for) only makes the distrust and contempt from the other side of the aisle worse.

Ok, that was more reasonable than I was expecting after your responses on this thread. But to clarify, Michael Brown wasn’t shot for stealing anything, he was shot for getting into a physical altercation with a police officer. Should officer Wilson had waited for backup? Maybe. But all of the physical evidence pointed to a justified shooting, with the officer acting in self defense. And I’m going to point it out again. Had Brown not robbed the convenience store, we wouldn’t be talking about him right now. Although robbery isn’t punishable by death, the circumstances that followed resulted in it.

 

[wlawr005]

You can also argue that if Brown hadn't been born poor and black in a Missouri shit hole his statistical chances of being alive would be considerably higher. He was a teenager, he broke the law, and he was killed for it.

That's not justice, and that's not the America I want.