Faith

[Fmr1833]

Does there need to be a specific "approach" to others outside your faith?

Yes. At the core of the Christian Faith is a call to Evangelism. Christ tells us that he is the Good News and that Christians have a responsibility to spread the News. Not really interested in arguing the multitude of abortive ways in which this evangelism has manifested itself in the past and present. Just wanted to put out there that Christians do have to adopt a specific approach because we are called to do so.

As for my journey to the Cross, lots of ups and downs. C. S. Lewis's Mere Christianity helped me work through the intellectual side of Faith. Science and all that is great but at some point you come to a wall...the Big Bang for instance. What was occuring miliseconds prior to the Bang? An answer to that can, of course, be argued in many ways, but at some point you make a choice. Previous posters have said that they chose to believe in the Big Bang as opposed to an omnipotent being that created an imperfect universe. I always think about it like this.

To me, believing that life (and Mankind in particular) is a random happenstance of evolution is akin to believing that a tornado could blow through a junkyard and assemble a fully functioning F-18. Again, just my thoughts.

To all who have posted on the thread, thanks for keeping it so civil and for actually having a discussion vs. some bash fest.

Good Stuff.

 

[nittany03]

Still deciding if or how I want to contribute anything from my experience on a public forum . . . but in the meantime both believers and unbelievers will find this good reading, I think.

 

[Swanee]

Still deciding if or how I want to contribute anything from my experience on a public forum . . . but in the meantime both believers and unbelievers will find this good reading, I think.

I am with Nittany, but I will contribute my personal beliefs.

First off, I don't pretend to be devoutly religious. I was baptized the Disciples of Christ Church (think liberal Methodist). I went to church when I was younger, but like Blackbear, played hockey, which happens at 8am on Sundays.

I believe God is too big for one religion. Everyone has the same basic rules and guidelines to live by. Be a good person is the general consensus.

As I grew up and went to college I started to realize a few things about a lot of "good christians". One is that they hate a lot of people because they are different and they don't understand them. Two is that a lot of people throughout history have been killed in the name of God. Hmm, though shall not kill? Hypocracy.

I took a few philosophy classes in college and got into the philosophy of religion. Good stuff. Everyone from Aristotle to Kant to Leibwitz and in between have some great ideas about the creator. They turned me on to my ideas about how religion and God play in my life.

Was there a creator who set things in motion? Maybe. There are a lot of one in a million chances that got us to where we are today. Science is rules and facts. If x happens y will result every time. Who wrote those rules? God? I believe something or someone had to.

My views on the Bible: Great stories and good morals. Some is applicable to my life, others are not. Jesus was a great guy and bad things happened to him, yet he still strove to see the good in people everyday. Was he real or did he just embody the spirit of God? To me it doesn't matter.

Perhaps I am still agnostic but I believe something is out there beyond me that is driving me to be a good person and enjoy the gift of life that has been given to me.

 

[Cate]

I was raised Catholic and have stuck with it because it works for me, moreso than any of the other organized systems I've felt around, anyway. And this is despite a few significant reservations I have about several tenets of the Catholic faith as handed down from the Vatican. It just feels right. What I've got going now just feels right.

And that's really as far as it goes. That's why I don't believe in evangelism, and that's why I don't believe in any kind of religious requirement or preference for public office, because no matter how much you talk about reason leading you wherever to blah blah blah, what it comes down to is what feels right. Why do I believe in God? Because. I can't point to any logical reason why I do; I can point to things that I believe are a result of God's hand in the world, but I can't tell you what evidence would indicate the hand of the Almighty. I can tell you about the feelings that I have when I take part in certain rites or when I pray, but none of that will mean anything to you unless it feels right to you, and if it does, it'll probably feel right to you in a different way than it feels right to me. Everything that we talk about as "evidence" of a higher power is, when viewed from a purely logical and reasonable standpoint, complete bunk, and the only thing that makes it non-bunky for us is that we feel it. That's what faith is, in the end; looking at all of the stuff that doesn't make sense and believing it anyway, not because there's any kind of evidence that it should make sense but because it just feels right. Faith is the decision to abandon logic because abandoning logic seems like the right thing to do.

In my mind, the only "reasonable" or "logical" stance would be agnosticism. From an objective standpoint, there isn't any evidence that what we consider to be miraculous is, in fact, the result of a higher being rather than just some scientifically explicable phenomena that we simply haven't yet explained scientifically. Nor is there any evidence that a higher power doesn't exist and that every witnessed act or feeling will ultimately be discovered to have an earthly root. Give me a good, solid agnostic any day, because although I'm a Christian, and a fairly devout one, I couldn't for the world tell you why outside of the fact that it feels right, and even I recognize that as lacking logic or reason.

 

[feddoc]

"Whosoever dies clothed in this Habit shall not suffer the fires of Hell."
"“Whosoever dies wearing this Scapular shall not suffer eternal fire.”
I assume the above is Catholic in origin.

Several years ago I had an opportunity to observe/assist an autopsy. The guy was soaked in fuel and should have been burned. Not even so much as a scorch mark anywhere. He was wearing several Catholic medallions and one scapular...scapula? which bore words similar to the above.
Faith or luck? I dunno. Sometimes I wonder if the two are not related...maybe God has decided that those who show faith will have some luck..sometimes good, sometimes bad.

I also find it interesting that some will say religion is a crutch. I think it is a crutch; one that many of us depend on and pay respects to. Not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[JMMH]

My mother was pretty consistant with going to church while I was growing up.
One Sunday we didn't go to and I asked: "Why aren't we going to church?"

My mother's answer: "You don't need to go to a church to have a relationship with God."

That's what stuck. There are too many questions surrounding other religions, or I just don't believe their basic principles. If I found one that I could commit to and believe in 100%, then sign me up and set the alarm for Sunday AM. It doesn't feel right to pick and choose what I believe from what is Catholic or Baptist, by label. (Not picking on Catholics OR Baptists, just examples.)
Many times I wish I could believe in one specific religion, but I just can't do it. Or I just haven't found it.

I'm willing to argue that not every religion accepts Jesus. I'm willing to put money on it that Amazon or Aboriginal cultures have never even heard of Jesus, but are true believers, devout, in their own religions.

I don't know if Jesus is recognized in ALL religions- Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism/Daoism, etc.

 

[Cate]

I'm willing to argue that not every religion accepts Jesus. I'm willing to put money on it that Amazon or Aboriginal cultures have never even heard of Jesus, but are true believers, devout, in their own religions.

I don't know if Jesus is recognized in ALL religions- Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism/Daoism, etc.

It's not so much a matter of recognizing Jesus as a religious figure as recognizing him as a historical figure. Enough evidence exists to suggest fairly reliably that there was a dude named Jesus who was born in Nazareth and wandered around causing trouble toward the end of his life. Whether he was a messiah, a prophet, or just a dude who ended up having some pretty wicked stories written about him is where the debate comes in.

 

[BACONATOR]

It's not so much a matter of recognizing Jesus as a religious figure as recognizing him as a historical figure. Enough evidence exists to suggest fairly reliably that there was a dude named Jesus who was born in Nazareth and wandered around causing trouble toward the end of his life. Whether he was a messiah, a prophet, or just a dude who ended up having some pretty wicked stories written about him is where the debate comes in.

There are folks who believe he never existed.

 

[Cate]

There are folks who believe he never existed.

There are folks who believe that man has never set foot on the moon.

 

[Fmr1833]

There are folks who believe the Holocaust never happened or that we never went to the moon or that there was a second shooter in Dallas...so what's your point?

 

[BACONATOR]

.

 

[Cate]

Don't want to turn the thread bad.

Oh, come on, now. This is a topic that can certainly be discussed without anything turning bad, unless people are going to start taking things personally unnecessarily. Sack up and address: Is it not possible to acknowledge Jesus's existence on the earth without addressing his religious or historical significance?

 

[BACONATOR]

Oh, come on, now. This is a topic that can certainly be discussed without anything turning bad, unless people are going to start taking things personally unnecessarily. Sack up and address: Is it not possible to acknowledge Jesus's existence on the earth without addressing his religious or historical significance?

I'm not speaking on my behalf at all, it is just the distant community from whence I came that I am speaking about. I haven't put much thought or research into Jesus for my own benefit so I haven't decided what I believe.

That being said, I know that in the orthodox Jewish community, they don't believe that the Jesus of Nazareth, as the Christians believe him to be, ever existed. They feel that he may have been one of the many false messiahs of the time, or possibly a complete fabrication (due to the New testament and associated canon being the only written historical evidence proving his existence).

It wasn't a religious attack, but rather just pointing out that your assumption that everyone believes he existed (religious implications or not) was wrong. fair enough?

 

[raptor10]

Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources
Historicity of Jesus

 

[llnick2001]

My religious views are quite simple to explain. You don't fuck with The Jesus.