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Drawbacks of the Military

FlyingBeagle

Registered User
pilot
Smurf said:
I've seen it all, up to to Blues.

If you're thinking of the drawbacks, bail now. You won't cut it.It's Hard work!


I hope you aren't serious. Dedication isn't stupidity. Any idiot can walk up to a recruiter all gung ho and sign their life away without any understanding of what they're getting themselves into. Good on this kid for trying to make an informed decision instead of being one of those *******s who goes to the Academy for the wrong reason, and then DORs from API so they can screw the Navy out of a college education and half a year's pay. :icon_rage

Even though I'd do it again, I'll be the first to admit that I didn't have a full understanding of what I was getting into, and coming from a military family, I bet I had a much better grasp of what military life entails than a lot of people who join up. Here's to all those who truly know how much it can suck and join up anyways.
 

mo7stanley

Registered User
I am not in the military but this is what I have experienced personally. I got involved with aviation when I was 16. I always had the dream of flying in the military. Anyway, to make a long story short, I now have my CFII and am working as a flight instructor hoping to get into the military flying in two years. What I have seen is that you only get into aviation for one reason and one reason only - you must absolutely without a question want to fly and will do whatever it takes to fly. That includes doing your best with the last student of a 10 - 12 hour day of which you only get paid for you flight hours which come out to be about 5. It also includes doing that 99% of other stuff in the military, as one person put it, to get that 1% of flying. You have to be able to accept whatever is thrown at you and just be happy that you got another hour of flying. If you really want to fly, then you will do whatever it takes and the downside won't seem so bad because you love what you do.
 

lance

Registered User
Chubby said:
It could be worse ... you could be sitting in your cubicle at Initech working for this guy ...

bill-lumberg.gif


Or that poor sap buying a minivan!
 

FlyingBeagle

Registered User
pilot
mo7stanley said:
What I have seen is that you only get into aviation for one reason and one reason only - you must absolutely without a question want to fly and will do whatever it takes to fly.

I always wanted to be a Navy pilot, but if I hadn't joined up, I never would have even considered civilian aviation. Flying is ok, but if I weren't doing it for the Navy, I'd be off doing something else with my time.
 

Scotty-O

Due to the government,I feel over-stimulated.
FlyingBeagle said:
I always wanted to be a Navy pilot, but if I hadn't joined up, I never would have even considered civilian aviation. Flying is ok, but if I weren't doing it for the Navy, I'd be off doing something else with my time.

Hear, Hear, Beagle! I've had such a piss poor time trying to get into flight school for the last decade (had contacts before they started accepting PRK, then too old for regular OCS entry, etc.) and I've almost given up a time or two. I toyed with the idea of flying civvy, and my girlfriend would prefer it, but it just has no appeal for me. The mission and the driving force behind it are nowhere near the same as the military, only in very specialized areas. (SAR, SWAT, etc.) That is why I went back to school for a 2nd BS to try to get into USCG Blue 21 rather than just drop 50K and get the instant gratification of being in civvy flight school. Plus you get the added bonuses of serving your country and the public, the great military community, and AAFES priviledges (HA!).
 

Mav

Registered User
edit: You get another vacation from posting. Spend some time reading older threads and learn a little about how to post and what does and does not go over well on this message board.

Brett and Raptor, I deleted you follow-ups to Mav's incredible insights to keep the thread on track.
 

FlyingBeagle

Registered User
pilot
I knew that eventually the Navy would keep me from being there for my wife and family like I wanted to, but it just happened for the first time. All in all, I was fortunate that I was able to be do as much as I could, but the worst part is imagining what may happen down the road when I won't be there for them. Frankly, I feel terrible. My best wishes go out to all the family men out in the fleet.
 

airwinger

Member
pilot
WARNING LONG POST
I've been thinking alot lately about the "inconvenient truths" of military aviation i.e things that we think suck that no one really talks about and is left for each new student to learn. Granted that no matter how hard we try there are some things no one could prepare you for(think about pickup day in boot camp)

In my very limited experience there have been 3 things
1)FAMS
2) race
3) nepotism

FAMS
I think I can say that having come to America, broke and alone, as a 19 year old wanting nothing more than to be a fighter pilot I had a few more challenges than the average stud on my road to flight school. I was therefore mortified when during fams I would pray for bad weather and dread going to the squadron. I assumed I should have been in heaven, all I had to do was fly and didn't even have to clean toilets to do it as I had during college, but I was miserable. I was not alone(even though I thought so) 7 out of 74 of my OCS/TBS classmates DOR'ed and later a few of my buddies revealed that they too had been miserable.

Looking back I think the biggest factors are a lack of feedback, learning to accept criticism while realizing which criticism is important and not having the tools to realize what effort pays off.

While you got a gradesheet after each flight, it gave you no idea how you were doing compared to your peers. This was important because apart from getting kicked out for too many downs(which was instant feedback :), all other actions were done in relation to your peers i.e attrition for low grades or getting that magical 50NSS. Add the fact that rarely did anyone admit to mistakes, you wound up believing you were the only one who screwed up checklists, or gooned your course rules.

Criticism was also now alot more intense compared to most other previous military and civilian training. There was now one on one with a screaming instructor who's sole role in life appeared to tell you how stupid you were. Eventually you accept that it isn't personal but that takes a while.
Personally by FAM 3 my instructor seemed to spend as much time yelling at me for not taxiing at exactly 8 knots ("look at the GPS!! not 7 not 9, 8 fu$king knots!!") as he did on my landings. Except for a rare "too fast", no one talked about taxiing after fams, but everyone would mention landings. The hours I spent trying to figure out how to taxi at exactly 8 knots, would better have been spent improving my landings.

Which leads to the final point. In every thing I'd done to this point I was able to figure out a linear relationship between effort and results. Study more = better grades, workout more=better PFT. But even living in the Q without a T.V, stereo or computer and doing nothing but studying didn't bring earn me an 80 NSS. Later I learnt that trunking flights, hours in the simulator and chair flying produced better results than rote memorization.

Conclusion fams suck!! But the solo is put there as a reward as is the entire PA phase and is does get alot better. If you want to DOR at least wait till PA's solos!!

RACE
I was once 'well balanced' vis my views on race(i.e it's not a factor) but 20 months in Meridian were tougher than I could have imagined and changed me radically.

Apart from extremes such as "we don't cut your kind of hair around here" to getting my tires slashed, telling the cops and having them laugh and ask if "JD still has BBQ over at his party", I had to change my perspective on alot of day to day things.

First when I got to NMM, I got the sheet from the housing office and called every apartment complex on there asking for a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment. There was only 1 one bedroom apartment available and I took it. Turned out that all my neighbors where black. No Biggie. Neither was the fact that my TBS classmates who checked in the week before and after me found places quite easily. The housing market can be like that. But what about my classmate and his wife who told me that when they were trying to buy into Dalewood the agent proudly told them they don't allow niggers there(he wound up not buying).

Later, I tried selling my car at a price below book value. I kept showing it but no dice and finally sold it to a black lady. Nothing strange so far. Then one of my classmates told me that when he went shopping for a car, the dealer kept remarking that "A white guy owned this car".

What I finally did was focus on flying, trunking flights and viewing friday nights as prime simulator time and tell myself that flying hornets out of mirarmar would make up for it all.

NEPOTISM
I was reluctant to share this one, but feel like a coward if I don't. After I joined, I believed in the Marine Corps, more than religion. While not perfect it was the most egalitarian organization in America, a true meritocracy. Everyone was equal. The endurance course hurt for everyone, 20 mile humps didn't care who your daddy was and DI's and SI's thought everyone was sh!t. Then 3 incidents in flight school changed my views.

A week after I selected one of my TBS classmates got a 51NSS was assigned jets another got a 49 was given helos. They asked to switch and were told that 50 was the minimum for jets and it was not going to happen. Well months later I'm talking to a Navy classmate who had selected around the same time who revealed that he had a 49 NSS and by chance his dad was a rear admiral.

Then two other classmates finished the TS program at the same time. Neither was no 1, but they did well. The CTW-1 senior Marine assigned the higher performing guy to his last choice and gave the hornet to the guy with the lower score. Quite by coincidence the winging guest speaker was the lower perfroming guy's father who was also an active 2 star general.

Finally I'm about to leave meridian, hanging my head when one of my buddies walks out of the commodores office, on his ACM 13X(two more flights to wings) he got his fifth down and was attrited. The exact same thing had happened to 2 other Marines in my time in meridian and they had to find new professions. So I tell myself "I may be a distinguished naval graduate who got his last choice, but hey at least I'm better off than him."

My buddy appeals to CNATRA himself who then awards him 12 more flights and switches him over to VT-7 to finish them. He gets hornets west coast. Appropos nothing whatsoever this guy's dad was a 2 star admiral.

Now even thought they told us at TBS that perception is reality, I'm a junior dude so there are probably things I don't know about that went down in al 3 situations, but if I had a son or especially a daughter going through the program I'd strive to either be a general, a congressman or have a billion or two in the bank.

Are these major points? No. Can you change them? sadly No. But perhaps you can steel yourself for them.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
WARNING ....I've been thinking alot lately about the "inconvenient truths" of military aviation ....
1)FAMS
2) race
3) nepotism
TRUTHS ??? And what is "truth", by the way ???

WARNING --- "INCONVENIENT TRUTH/REALITY CHECK:
It's the way of the world. You guys today --Naval Aviators and NAVAIR STUDs TODAY --- are fortunate, in spite of what you say about "inconvenient truths". You have it --- shall we say ... so much "easier" than we did. You have more "protection" and avenues to air "grievances". Don't think so ... ??? Since you picked these three .....

1. FAMS ... used to be called Primary (?) --- ALWAYS sucked, you got little/no help from most Flight Instructors ... lots of SCREAMERS --- most people didn't care whether or not you got through --- most were pissed that they were instructing "there", as it was beneath them. It was a great big winnowing process, in point of fact. It wasn't suppose to be "fun". And I ALWAYS prayed for bad WX in Primary.

2. RACE ... A little different for me as I'm not a "color" minority, although I was "darker" than a running mate who was a full-blooded Yakima Indian. My NAVAIR world as a STUD was basically lily white. Sounds like you're NOT --- if sooooooo , back-in-the-day, you would not have even been "there" as there were virtually NO minorities in the NAVAIR STUD-ent population when I went through. We had the occassional exception of an American Indian or a very "white skinned" Mexican here and there .... no blacks, browns, yellows, pick-a-color/race. And certainly NO WOMEN. Blacks didn't have apartments in Meridian --- what they had was , much, MUCH worse. I saw things in the post 1964 Civil Rights Act South that I thought disappeared years -- or decades -- earlier. Driving up from Pensacola to Meridian --- I stopped at a gas station in Alabama that still had "Whites" and "Coloreds" on the bathroom doors and the drinking fountains. And they meant it .... ignorant people are always ignorant. It's got nothing to do with the Navy/Marines.

3. NEPOTISM ... again, welcome to the world. I'm all for it. I just wish my Daddy had been rich and connected. It happens all the time --- always has; always will. You think it's better OUTSIDE the Navy ??? Try the airlines. Try the government. Try any major corporation. :)

And 5 (FIVE ??!!??) DOWNS ??? Two downs in any stage and three downs total --- from VT-1 to Wings --- back-in-the-day would have been a ticket to nearest the Greyhound Bus Station ....

You're a Naval Aviator. Everyone has their own set of problems and "inconvenient truths". Quit Complaining -- stow it -- no one wants to hear it. Always strive to do your best and the only guy you need worry about is the one you look at in the mirror every morning.

If you're not complaining ... you sure fooled me. Pardon me and disregard all above. I'm just not gonna' sit here, say nothing, and let young dewy-eyed skulls full of cottage cheese think that your "truths" are endemic of or in any way an indictment of the U.S. Navy/Marines. I'm just not gonna' do it ....
 
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