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COVID-19

Goodfou

Well-Known Member
The public won't support it, but the military shouldn't concern itself with that, IMO. That's an issue for the politicians.

As for the now ex-CO, I applaud him for sending the letter and for the letter being leaked (many are not convinced that Big Navy/DOD would have moved as quickly as they did otherwise, though if I suggested that plans were not being made I would be disingenuous and, indeed, the Acting SECNAV says that plans to evacuate most of the Sailors off of the ship were already being worked on before the letter was sent), but I also support the Navy's decision here. The CO took actions that he took because he truly cared for his Sailors, but its tough to support someone serving in a senior military leadership position who goes outside his CoC; that could be dangerous. Per the Acting SECNAV, the CSG Commander wasn't even aware of the letter until it was sent and the CAPT acted as he did despite the Acting SECNAV's COS telling the CAPT that he had a direct line to the SECNAV. And the letter was sent over unclassified channels and to people outside of the CoC at that. This tells me that the CAPT wanted the letter to be leaked.

Btw, I just listened to the Acting SECNAV's address on the matter. I thought it to be spot on. He expressly made clear that the CAPT was "absolutely correct in raising" the concerns that he did. Its how he did what he did that was the problem.

Serious question. What is “unsecured”? NMCI? Whatever equivalent network used on CVNs? Why would that be “unsecured”? The letter was not giving away anything that wasn’t already in the news so why would it have to be sent on the high side? Furthermore, those that were cc’d were likely the triads and DHs on his ship keeping them in the loop of his actions to try to take care of their Sailors... just my noob thoughts...

the actual letter:

 

CWO_change

Well-Known Member
Serious question. What is “unsecured”? NMCI? Whatever equivalent network used on CVNs? Why would that be “unsecured”? The letter was not giving away anything that wasn’t already in the news so why would it have to be sent on the high side? Furthermore, those that were cc’d were likely the triads and DHs on his ship keeping them in the loop of his actions to try to take care of their Sailors... just my noob thoughts...

the actual letter:


I appreciate the response and questions.

To start, though, I never used the term"unsecured." I explicitly wrote "unclassified," and there is a difference between the two terms.

Fundamentally, I'd wager that the point about unclassified networks was brought up by SECNAV to make the case that the use of unclassified networks not being the best judgement as its more difficult to safeguard information shared on unclassified networks than it is on classified networks. There are many things that are not classified that are still recommended to be sent via classified channels as they provide more security than unclassified channels (more on that below).

Not only do fewer people have access to classified mediums (particularly, TS classified networks to include JWICS, NSANet, etc.) within the DON/DOD--which cuts down on who you can send the letter to to begin with--but there are added safeguards in place for classified networks that make leaks a little more difficult (though they certainly still do happen). And whether the information was classified or not (and no one is arguing that the information in the letter contained classified information), sending via an classified medium means that the electronic material would still have to be officially downgraded before it could be transferred electronically to an unclassified network; there are other security measures in place for classified networks that I can't get into for obvious reasons. You can also access an unclassified network from the comfort of your home and print from your own private printer at home, as well as take high resolution photos of the computer screen (thereby making a forensic investigation into whether the document was printed or forwarded to another email for naught), which adds to the increased ease of leaking if something is shared via the unclassified networks vs classified networks; you are prohibited from having personal electronic devices in a space with classified IT systems.
 
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taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Well, it’s Sunday and we are already past 2,000 dead. Should be at around 10,000 by next Monday, based on doubling rate. But fingers crossed on social distancing.
It's the next Monday, and we are nailing the 10K number. Hopefully social distancing will kick in. Otherwise, based on the doubling rate, looking at 40,000 dead by Monday, 12 April.

That's 30,000 dead this week.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
It's the next Monday, and we are nailing the 10K number. Hopefully social distancing will kick in. Otherwise, based on the doubling rate, looking at 40,000 dead by Monday, 12 April.

That's 30,000 dead this week.
Hopefully we are getting tired of social distancing. The death toll from the virus while tragic is going to be put into perspective by the self inflicted gunshot to the economy
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
It's the next Monday, and we are nailing the 10K number. Hopefully social distancing will kick in. Otherwise, based on the doubling rate, looking at 40,000 dead by Monday, 12 April.

That's 30,000 dead this week.
I think this is what came across as giddy. I tend to agree.

On a slightly different note, I am disheartened by the ease at which some on this forum dismiss the value of lives in favor of the economy. Who are we, when it is all said and done, is more important than what we own. Those who serve this country will do well to remember what it is about this country worth serving. Hint: It's not the economy...I hope.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
On a slightly different note, I am disheartened by the ease at which some on this forum dismiss the value of lives in favor of the economy. Who are we, when it is all said and done, is more important than what we own.
I agree, but the value of lives and the economy are tied together. This consuming pandemic isn't the only threat to our lives, and addressing all of those threats requires resources- which come from our economy.

Kinda preaching to the choir and I know that you "get it." I think that we all get it, and where we disagree is where the correct balance is between the two.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
When asked when the mitigating procedures should be lifted, Dr Fauci said "when we have no new cases or deaths". That is why we don't let experts or specialists in narrow fields make policy. By that standard we will be in a depression that will last years.

Thousands of deaths have a cost. I recognize that it is in more than just dollars. And clearly current mitigation policies have a cost. They, in turn, are not just in dollars. The public health folks live in a different world than the our leaders and most Americans. The very oath the physicians swear, and all other medical pros aspire to, is to " do no harm". God Bless them. But that is in a medical context and a human patient. So you get, in a policy perspective, useless comments like Dr Fauci's. He could say little else. But it is not a reality. The cost is too high to the rest of the country.

We may see one day we were overly influanced by data and experts analysis in just one field. And it is likely because the media does nothing but push the bad news and worse case scenario. Anyone who would ask the wrong question or suggest something positive or highlight data not promoted by the media gets vilified.

Although some guys here are wonkish and have supplied truly useful data in proper context, that is not available to the public via our most popular media. I broke with my usual practise of not watching national news to follow the pandemic. Just this weekend I saw hours of coverage and did not see any mention of actual rates of death, rates of cases per 100,000, percent recovered, etc. All you see are raw numbers with no useful context. Referencing our number of cases and deaths to Italy is utterly useless, but sufficiently scares people. I read a big article about Sweden's mitigation policies. It was critical, but while it noted numbers of Swedish deaths and cases, not rates, it did not compare them to their neighbors or other countries of similar size.

The media is trying to scare the hell out of people while providing good news stories about neighbors singing for hospital workers. NYC is not Des Moines and New Orleans is not Fargo. Hell, Queens in not Manhattan.

Sick is not dead. But that is not the media narrative. Sick does not even guarantee a trip to the hospital. The fact is, the likely scenario, not worse case, is that you are not even going to get sick. And if you do, you will recover without a night in the hospital. I have not heard that on the news yet.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
You sound almost giddy over this . . .
I get that. I feel like the meteorologist who is accurately predicting that a hurricane is going to hit his own house. Going back to my March 16 post, it was just numbers running out from 70 deaths and the doubling rate. This week was always going to come, no matter what.

But 30,000 is getting into "Oh shit" territory. It is here, now, in a way that is going to dwarf what has happened to date. This is why the Surgeon General is warning everyone to stand by.

Accuracy of past predictions suggest they'll be good into the near future. I'd rather stare at the truth and make the hard decisions based on that, then pretend.
 
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