Attrite to SNFO but wait, how?

[ea6bflyr]

Oh shit, that was the spelling error he was talking about. My computer says attrited isn't a word.

Looks like you need to move to the next stage:

 

[P3 F0]

OP would have been better off (for everyone, including himself) just posting about his failures, what led to them, and lessons learned for future SNAs.

I remember being in API and VT-10, thinking that any moment, some O-5 was going to walk in the room and approach me with a "Sorry, son, you don't belong here. Say, ever heard of the Connie?" But damned if I wasn't going to put 100% into everything I did there, because I wasn't going to let myself beat myself. If the program got the better of me despite my best efforts, I could live with that. Meanwhile, I saw others that weren't taking it that seriously (at least, from what I could tell), and some did fine, while a couple others did not. Not sure where on that spectrum OP falls.
Relevant.

 

[PMPT]

maybe, like 1% maybe it could work, you wouldn't even try? Just because you might aggravate some pilots/NFOs for a couple minutes.

you can't even call this a 1% chance. its a paperwork problem, but you were removed from SNA pipeline and redesignated and entered into SNFO training. In what universe could that be considered not being attrited from pilot training? It's odd that the instruction wasn't properly followed, but presumably you met your skipper and failed a FPC? Even if you hadn't had a meeting with an O-6, the reality is that you had a 4389 and did not pass it. People have come back from a failed FPC, but it's very much the exception to the rule and I don't think I've heard of it happening in primary. Isn't the basis of a failed FPC that the squadron CO believes you cannot complete training? Surely that enough is alone to say regardless of formal meetings, the actual substance of the attrition is there (ignoring the fact that you literally were removed from the pipeline and redesignated). You can't be faulted for wanting to go back, but it was demonstrably kind of crazy to think you were not attrited - if you were not attrited, are you suggesting you are still technically a SNA? Additionally, you will be asked by other services (ANG, for instance) if you have ever been removed from flight training ... you can't seriously try to tell us you could honestly answer "no" to that, can you?

It's all good and well to want to come back but huge below MIF for headwork on this post and your less-than-humbled tone in your replies.

 

[Jim123]

Did you meet with the deputy commo (or the chief staff, or anyone acting as "designated representative" could be the applicable term) for whatever reason?

 

[ACE#2]

Did you meet with the deputy commo (or the chief staff, or anyone acting as "designated representative" could be the applicable term) for whatever reason?

No, but I did however ask the STUCON officer whether or not I could go up to be retained at the Commodore level, he said it was possible, but at that point, my program change request was already accepted and we would have to go back to CNATRA and the OCM. Also, given my ATJ, he said it was unlikely the Commodore would consider retention.

 

[ACE#2]

you can't even call this a 1% chance. its a paperwork problem, but you were removed from SNA pipeline and redesignated and entered into SNFO training. In what universe could that be considered not being attrited from pilot training? It's odd that the instruction wasn't properly followed, but presumably you met your skipper and failed a FPC? Even if you hadn't had a meeting with an O-6, the reality is that you had a 4389 and did not pass it. People have come back from a failed FPC, but it's very much the exception to the rule and I don't think I've heard of it happening in primary. Isn't the basis of a failed FPC that the squadron CO believes you cannot complete training? Surely that enough is alone to say regardless of formal meetings, the actual substance of the attrition is there (ignoring the fact that you literally were removed from the pipeline and redesignated). You can't be faulted for wanting to go back, but it was demonstrably kind of crazy to think you were not attrited - if you were not attrited, are you suggesting you are still technically a SNA? Additionally, you will be asked by other services (ANG, for instance) if you have ever been removed from flight training ... you can't seriously try to tell us you could honestly answer "no" to that, can you?

It's all good and well to want to come back but huge below MIF for headwork on this post and your less-than-humbled tone in your replies.

Yeah, definitely not MIF headwork, and I apologize to anyone I may have pissed of in this thread. I've been thinking of a way to better explain the situation to the group.

A better title would be "A Program Change Vice Attrition or A Program Change with Attrition"

This is my understanding of the attrition process:

Attrition Process:

1. The CO disenrolls
2. To Commodore attrites
3. CNATRA separates
4. OCM re-designates

Program Change Process:

1. SNA requests
2. CO pauses, disenrolls, or continues SNA in training
3. CO, Wing, CNATRA, and OCM adjudicate request.
4. If Recommended for Attrition, Commodore makes attrition/retention decision.

Following my failed CO-PC, I requested and the CO recommended a program change to the SNFO program, which in a way, paused the attrition process (i.e no TRB, no Commodore Interview), this is in line with the instruction. However, following that a Separation From Training Report (1300-1) would be filed, formally disqualifying you from subsequent training.

So I think the benefit of that paper not existing in your ATJ is that, while you definitely will have to disclose your training failures, truthfully they are already disclosed, if a CO wanted to recommend you, you would not have to request a waiver from CNATRA. Thoughts?

 

[Brett327]

Why are we still talking about this? Time to move forward.

 

[Jim123]

The semantics might help future program transition people and attritees. It's a pretty rare question though.

 

[HAL Pilot]

@ACE#2

Just give it up and STFU up. It's not going to happen. Move on and be happy as a NFO with no regrets or get the fuck out of Navy flying.

Please don't try and do this "explaining" during your training or subsequent tours. You'll only piss off your instructors and superior officers while alienating yourself from your peers.

Learn from your mistakes and move forward. Your past is history and history doesn't change no matter how many different ways you try and explain it or warp it.

 

[CommodoreMid]

The man who signed that instruction, who I happen to know personally, can wipe his ass with your assessment of what is, or is not, perfunctory. You're being ridiculous now. Focus on being a good NFO, and do seriously consider a career in the VP community.

Don’t you put that evil on us Ricky Bobby!

 

[flgator92]

@Brett327 It is not "perfunctory" , it is mandated by instruction.

@HAL Pilot "fucking clueless sea lawyer douche bag that no one can stand to be around" & "you're going to attrite from NFO training too" I expect air warriors to be a place to be told "no" a lot but it seems like you like taking shots for no reason. God forbid my Navy career is over for making a Saturday night post on Air warriors.

@Treetop Flyer as crazy as it sounds I just want my answer, not a "it's highly unlikely", that's quitting, and around here, we complete or attrite out of programs, we don't quit.

Duuuudddeee. Chill. If you have your sights set on 86 for advanced, I'd recommend you take a big bite of humble pie. The most important lesson you should've already learned in the SNA pipeline is to not make excuses. Your landing pattern sucked, you got the boot. End of story. You accept that and move on. Being an NFO is an awesome job also. Stop groaning and moaning of what may have been and worry about learning to be a great NFO. Everything else is, in fact, perfunctory.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I expect air warriors to be a place to be told "no" a lot but it seems like you like taking shots for no reason.

How did I miss this gem????

Yup, I like taking shots both for no reason and for good reason. You have provided plenty of good reasons.

 

[squorch2]

God forbid my Navy career is over for making a Saturday night post on Air warriors.

folks have lost more for less

 

[mad dog]

When HAL and Brett agree, you done fucked up A-Aron!

OK…full disclosure…so when you posted that, I had no idea what the whole “A-Aron” thing was all about so I didn’t react [to your post]…because I don’t react to stuff that I’m not familiar with...or don’t “get”. Anyway…I kept trying to figure out why you had so many reactions…so I asked one of my pilot buddies [he’s a 767 freight dog] about it. He knows I’m not up to date on shit so he sent me a link [via text] regarding that Key & Peele “A-Aron” thing. Well, I couldn’t get the dang thing to load [play] so I said fuck it and forgot about it. So then we were at Hooters last Tuesday night…and he asked me if I had watched the “A-Aron” video and I told him, “Nopers…couldn’t get it to load [play] and then I forgot about it.” So…we get it working on a different pilot buddy’s phone and I watch it. Well hot dang…that’s some funny shit…funniest shit I’ve seen [heard] all month! So then I’m in a big sweat to actually find your post and react to it…took me about an hour to find it [but I did find it] and reacted to it with the…



…emoji.

I just wanted to let you know that it’s some funny shit, thanks for posting it, and why it took me so long to react to it. Oh, yeah…one more thing…the wife unit did something [sort of] stupid yesterday and I said, “You done fucked up A-Aron!”…and she didn’t know what the whole “A-Aron” thing was…so I don’t feel too bad about being late to the “A-Aron” party.

For review…

 

[sevenhelmet]

While we're being pedantic and sea-lawyering irrelevant shit, it's actually "You done messed up A-Aron!", at least according to the clip.

....but never let the truth get in the way of a good F-bomb.