Attrite to SNFO but wait, how?

[ACE#2]

Hey everyone, long time reader, first time poster, but here is my question?

About a year back I washed out of as an SNA to got a program change to become an SNFO, but the form associated with attrition, a CNATRA 1300-1 , was never placed in my jacket. Also, I never met the Commodore. These are required to be formally attired. I looked into the guidance (CNATRA 1500.4J) on what guides an attrition as well. It says:

What does this mean for me, was I not attired?

This is of interest to me because I definitely would try to go back as an SNA, I took SNFO because that was the only real option at the time.

Here is the wording for anyone interested (CNATRA 1500.4J 710):

No NFS shall be attrited without being personally interviewed by the TRAWING Commander.

If the TRAWING Commander believes the NFS’s difficulty is attributable to a specific flight difficulty that would not likely affect progress in another program or pipeline, the NFS may be afforded the opportunity to transfer to an alternate NATRACOM program or pipeline. The program or pipeline transfer request must be submitted and adjudicated prior to submission of the Separation from Training report (1300-1).

The date of attrition shall be the date of the TRAWING Commander's endorsement on the Separation from Training report. The assigned attrition code determines future training status of an NFS and must be an accurate reflection of the reason for the NFS’s failure to complete the program.

 

[Brett327]

Did you continue on in SNA training? If not, then you were attrited. Sounds like you're attempting to sea-lawyer your way back into being an SNA due to a technicality. Setting that aside, where are you in your training currently? I think it's unlikely that your CDRE or CNATRA would put you back in SNA training just because the letter of the law wasn't followed. After all, you did wash out of SNA training. Also, be aware that all of these delays in actually getting winged can screw up your career timing, which will be a huge pain in the ass for you down the road.

 

[ACE#2]

I'm currently in SNFO primary. I'm not really wanting to go back now, more so as a NFO to Pilot Transition question. Program Changes are generally blocked from subsequent program changes by the 1500.4J.

** Also, the wording for the SNFO transfer is a lot bit harsher than I intended, it definitely was not my only choice, it was my only choice to stay in aviation. I actually enjoy being an SNFO, if that didn't come across the first time. **

 

[picklesuit]

So what was the purpose of this post again? Grow where you are planted dude…

 

[ACE#2]

Grow where you are planted is the whole POINT!!!

 

[HAL Pilot]

Grow where you are planted is the whole POINT!!!

You fucked it away. Man up and live with it.

 

[picklesuit]

Grow where you are planted is the whole POINT!!!

Can’t hear you over your grammatical errors…you won’t make it far as a newly minted nerd if you can’t chop a purple…

 

[ACE#2]

Wow, tough crowd. Also, "newly minted" and "chop a purple", what does that even mean?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Honestly what are you even asking? You’re not an SNA and won’t be going back. Not now, because you attrited, and not down the road because why would they send someone who already had a chance? Even if they did send you back later on it won’t be because you cracked the case with some missing paperwork.

 

[ACE#2]

^^ What air warriors thinks of me right now.

The question is in regards to eligibility and is more for someone who has attired from a program or someone working in CNATRA . Specifically, the question is:

What formally separates an individual from a flight training program?

The interest in asking the question is for subsequent eligibility, NOT LIKELIHOOD. Attrition covers a very large spectrum of difficulties, and not all of them are treated the same. It is detailed in the 1500.4J attrition codes.

Flight Attrition/Non-Grad. Attrition/Non-Grad is the result of flight (SNA) or practical work (SNFO) failure. NFSs in this category are disqualified for further naval pilot training and are given a negative recommendation for any military pilot training.

DISENROLLMENT ATTRITION/NON-GRAD. This attrition/non-grad is due to the administrative removal of an NFS from training.
a. Cancellation of Class/Course. NFS is unable to complete course due to cancellation of class/course.
b. Pipeline or Program Change – Needs of the Navy or parent service. If another attrition code applies, such as flight failure (FCM), that code will be used.
c. Incomplete Training as requested by member's command or higher authority. NFS is unable to complete course of instruction due to changes in orders, duties, or assignments. Such changes are made at the convenience of the NFS's superiors and are not due to NFS inability or lack of achievement

 

[cfam]

I’ll bite.

So why did you get attrited? Based on what you quoted, it seems like you should be able to answer your own question. Lack of paperwork is not going to outweigh the fact that you did actually attrite.

I would not count on being picked up for NFO to Pilot. It’s an extremely competitive program (only around 5 selectees per year), and the other NFOs applying won’t have an attrite in their record.

To be blunt, you’re screwed for becoming a Navy pilot. Your best bet would be to try for a pilot slot in another branch after your NFO commitment is complete, provided you still meet age requirements and that you can convince them to overlook your attrite.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

View attachment 31219

^^ What air warriors thinks of me right now.

The question is in regards to eligibility and is more for someone who has attired from a program or someone working in CNATRA . Specifically, the question is:

What formally separates an individual from a flight training program?

The interest in asking the question is for subsequent eligibility, NOT LIKELIHOOD. Attrition covers a very large spectrum of difficulties, and not all of them are treated the same. It is detailed in the 1500.4J attrition codes.

Flight Attrition/Non-Grad. Attrition/Non-Grad is the result of flight (SNA) or practical work (SNFO) failure. NFSs in this category are disqualified for further naval pilot training and are given a negative recommendation for any military pilot training.

DISENROLLMENT ATTRITION/NON-GRAD. This attrition/non-grad is due to the administrative removal of an NFS from training.
a. Cancellation of Class/Course. NFS is unable to complete course due to cancellation of class/course.
b. Pipeline or Program Change – Needs of the Navy or parent service. If another attrition code applies, such as flight failure (FCM), that code will be used.
c. Incomplete Training as requested by member's command or higher authority. NFS is unable to complete course of instruction due to changes in orders, duties, or assignments. Such changes are made at the convenience of the NFS's superiors and are not due to NFS inability or lack of achievement

You know why it happened. I bet your course wasn’t cancelled. I bet the Navy didn’t do away with the primary flight training pipeline. I bet higher didn’t swoop in to give you other orders.

Does that narrow it down?

 

[ACE#2]

@cfam Everything is the navy is competitive, getting a slot to go SNFO after a recommendation for attrition is competitive. Just because its competitive, doesn't mean fuck it away. Also it was for poor landing pattern performance in C4300, but that's beside the point. We keep running around the problem. The point isn't to hide an attrition, I shouldn't have to guess my status as an aviator, and if you are eligible, you should be able to apply. If not, you should seek a waiver or not apply.

If an answer is no, it should be no on paper. If it is not, I'll guarantee the answer isn't "but it's obvious", it was either a mistake or , this is where the magic happens, it was intentional.

@Treetop Flyer So you think the answer is B?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

@cfam Everything is the navy is competitive, getting a slot to go SNFO after a recommendation for attrition is competitive. Just because its competitive, doesn't mean fuck it away. Also it was for poor landing pattern performance in C4300, but that's beside the point. We keep running around the problem. The point isn't to hide an attrition, I shouldn't have to guess my status as an aviator, and if you are eligible, you should be able to apply. If not, you should seek a waiver or not apply.

If an answer is no, it should be no on paper. If it is not, I'll guarantee the answer isn't "but it's obvious", it was either a mistake or , this is where the magic happens, it was intentional.

@Treetop Flyer So you think the answer is B?

No you’re probably right. When they attrited you for poor performance they probably had a sidebar with top men and decided that based on your poor performance they should intentionally not do some paperwork knowing that years from now this shit hot attrite would come back and master the landing pattern and then the many other more challenging phases between early primary and wings. Why should we pick this guy over the others, he attrited once. But did he? There’s no proof!

This is the kind of foresight America’s Navy(tm) is known for. Try to play dumb though, stick to the plan.

 

[ACE#2]

@Treetop Flyer exactly, know that we are on the same page, back to the "bolded" question.

But in all seriousness, there have been cases of individuals being attrited from flight training and coming back in all services, believe it or not, people can improve. I know "wild".

Also, "shit hot attrite" I must be getting on your good side now.