Ammo, Ammo, Ammo

[wink]

I'll be in SE AZ. This particular area was once lousy with javelina, but not so much any more. I usually hunt them with my 6" barrel open sight .44 mag. The reason I am even considering the sabot round is just because I know it will not be a long shot and if I do miss, so what. It is a damned javelina. Sometimes not bagging game is the better out come (iffy tasting meat, cleaning mess, packing out, care of the meat while in camp, etc). As far as the accuracy of the round, I have a very fine gun, it is the shooter that ruins the shots . In any case, I have no need to shoot anything accurately past a couple hundred yards. I'd be happy if the sabots were reasonable out to 100-150 yards.

 

[FlyinRock]

Wink
just to kill something for the hell of it does not impress me even if they are just "damned javelina..."
I was a licensed hunting guide in several states and anytime I had a client with that kind of attitude I walked his ass off and he never got any shots that mattered because he was out of breath.
Did you really mean what you said?

 

[scoolbubba]

Wink
just to kill something for the hell of it does not impress me even if they are just "damned javelina..."
I was a licensed hunting guide in several states and anytime I had a client with that kind of attitude I walked his ass off and he never got any shots that mattered because he was out of breath.
Did you really mean what you said?

Wow, what a guide...

 

[wink]

Wink
just to kill something for the hell of it does not impress me even if they are just "damned javelina..."
I was a licensed hunting guide in several states and anytime I had a client with that kind of attitude I walked his ass off and he never got any shots that mattered because he was out of breath.
Did you really mean what you said?

I meant what I typed, but apparently not what you understood. I am sure you find some game more tasty then others and some trophies/hunts more satisfying/worthwhile then others. I happen to enjoy quail and pheasant meat more then duck. I prefer elk meat to venison and moose over elk. I would find a successful outcome to a Dall sheep hunt more gratifying then bagging the annual mule deer. I am not going to shoot a javelina because it is "damned" or because I have no respect for it. I am going to try to shoot a javelina because it is sporting, and it benefits the professional scientific wildlife management in the state to the benefit of all the other species in the same habitat, game and non game. But if I don't shoot one I will not be heart broken because the meat doesn't taste anywhere near as good as quail or elk and I didn't have to invest a lot of time, physical effort and money , like for an Alaska Dall hunt. Sorry, but in the grand scheme of my hunting experiences and desires, it is just a damned javelina. And because it does not mean much to me one way or the other if I shoot one, I will have fun with my buddy and our sons regardless. Still sound like a bad attitude? How about if I told you that I find nothing immoral about hunting an animal that will never end up in anyone's freezer. Would you guide a guy on a coyote hunt, or set a guy up to shoot prairie dogs or crows? I find nothing wrong with those hunts as long as they fit into the areas wildlife management.

 

[Bevo16]

Javelina are not really sporting animals and killing them off is just fine with me. They tear up fences, crops, and if you ever hit one with a vehicle you are pretty much f'd. We always gave what we killed to the Mexicans that lived across the tracks (and got paid back with gratitude and some kick-ass tamales). If they had not wanted them though, we would have just left them them in the field. Buzzards gotta eat too, and if an animal is going to threaten someone's way of life (the farmers and ranchers that wanted their pig population thinned) that's a good enough reason for me.

I do have some venison meat-loaf in the oven right now though, and am counting the minutes.

 

[H60Gunner]

I have never loaded or shot rifle sabots. I do know that changing bullet weight and length in a rifle barrel designed to stabilize certain bullets can have a serious detrimental affect on accuracy. Seems to me that a hunk of lead that light, coming out of a barrel that fast, would need a much faster rate of spin to not tumble.

I do like the speed achieved with those rounds!

 

[FlyinRock]

Wow, what a guide...

****************************************
From your response, I'm not sure if that is a good/bad one.
Let me clarify.
I have been a licensed guide in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. I've also had the privilege of hunting in many parts of the world. I consider myself to be a game conservationist and very respectful of the world we live in. Wild life is of concern to me as well as the conservation of same. When I had clients who bragged of killing a large number of animals for the year, it rubbed me wrong. When they came into an area that I felt responsible for, and that my livelihood depended on, I was not going to just lead them to an easy shot to kill game for their own satisfaction.
If they were sportsmen, I respected that and did as I was hired to do and led them to trophy animals. I had the highest respect for the hunters who said they'd pass on a shot because it wasn't what they wanted, or just because it was too beautiful to take.
The jerks who wanted to shoot just because they paid for a hunt had to work for it and I'd work their ass off going up and down hills (like at 10'000 msl) and put them in a breathless position to shoot on an animal. If they werent' capable of making the shot, so what? I put them where they could make the shot or not. At that point I felt I had made the contractual committment.
It is a two way street. I did all I could to take a true sportsman to the point of the shot, and what he did was up to him/her. If they were what I call "game pigs" and just wanted me to show them easy shots, my attitude changed and they got worked for any shots they took. These were the same kinds of "hunters" who would shoot in camp and then wonder why we never saw any animals, or bitch because the saddle stock bolted out of camp and there was a delay while we went to round them up. Nahh, I don't have any respect for people who don't respect the wildlife.
Some of my most fond memories are youngsters who were on their first hunts and absorbed everything I told them or showed them, and was so proud when they'd pass on an easy shot. Talk about work my ass off for them? You bettcha and they have emailed me over the years to tell me how much they appreciated those hunts.
Over more than 50 years of hunting, I've participated in killing hundreds of animals. At some point you get tired of killing just to kill something. There is a lot more to it than that.
wheeew ....now I'm calm and relaxed <g>
Did I mention it is an emotional issue for many?
Rocky

 

[feddoc]

****************************************
From your response, I'm not sure if that is a good/bad one.
Let me clarify.
I have been a licensed guide in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. I've also had the privilege of hunting in many parts of the world. I consider myself to be a game conservationist and very respectful of the world we live in. Wild life is of concern to me as well as the conservation of same. When I had clients who bragged of killing a large number of animals for the year, it rubbed me wrong. When they came into an area that I felt responsible for, and that my livelihood depended on, I was not going to just lead them to an easy shot to kill game for their own satisfaction.
If they were sportsmen, I respected that and did as I was hired to do and led them to trophy animals. I had the highest respect for the hunters who said they'd pass on a shot because it wasn't what they wanted, or just because it was too beautiful to take.
The jerks who wanted to shoot just because they paid for a hunt had to work for it and I'd work their ass off going up and down hills (like at 10'000 msl) and put them in a breathless position to shoot on an animal. If they werent' capable of making the shot, so what? I put them where they could make the shot or not. At that point I felt I had made the contractual committment.
It is a two way street. I did all I could to take a true sportsman to the point of the shot, and what he did was up to him/her. If they were what I call "game pigs" and just wanted me to show them easy shots, my attitude changed and they got worked for any shots they took. These were the same kinds of "hunters" who would shoot in camp and then wonder why we never saw any animals, or bitch because the saddle stock bolted out of camp and there was a delay while we went to round them up. Nahh, I don't have any respect for people who don't respect the wildlife.
Some of my most fond memories are youngsters who were on their first hunts and absorbed everything I told them or showed them, and was so proud when they'd pass on an easy shot. Talk about work my ass off for them? You bettcha and they have emailed me over the years to tell me how much they appreciated those hunts.
Over more than 50 years of hunting, I've participated in killing hundreds of animals. At some point you get tired of killing just to kill something. There is a lot more to it than that.
wheeew ....now I'm calm and relaxed <g>
Did I mention it is an emotional issue for many?
Rocky

You 'put them in a breathless position'. Why? as a hunter/guide, that could lead to a poorly placed shot and an inhumane kill.

 

[FlyinRock]

Are you kidding? They could barely hold their rifle let alone make any kind of shot! If they made a poor shot I was ready to follow up. I don't think anyone who hasn't been in the position can really understand the viewpoint.

 

[feddoc]

Are you kidding? They could barely hold their rifle let alone make any kind of shot! If they made a poor shot I was ready to follow up. I don't think anyone who hasn't been in the position can really understand the viewpoint.

No, I am not kidding. You decided to put them position which likely was unethical. I don't need to be a guide to understand that.

 

[FENIAN]

Once you guys are done squabbling, I think this will help the OP.
Sticking to the original topic, I think this link should help. Ballistics should be close within 100 yds. After that, it won't be effective on any target smaller than a human torso. If you get a 10mph wind at full value, you are looking at 1 MOA deviation at 100 yds. Basically, this round won't really need a zero if you are looking at less than 100 yds, and less than 10mph winds. Anything more, and you need to take a range day.

http://www.remington.com/products/a...ve_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R30069*R30065

 

[wink]

Once you guys are done squabbling, I think this will help the OP.
Sticking to the original topic, I think this link should help. Ballistics should be close within 100 yds. After that, it won't be effective on any target smaller than a human torso. If you get a 10mph wind at full value, you are looking at 1 MOA deviation at 100 yds. Basically, this round won't really need a zero if you are looking at less than 100 yds, and less than 10mph winds. Anything more, and you need to take a range day.

http://www.remington.com/products/a...ve_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R30069*R30065

If we hadn't squabbled for this long you may not have gotten around to posting such good gouge. Thanks.

 

[FlyinRock]

No, I am not kidding. You decided to put them position which likely was unethical. I don't need to be a guide to understand that.

*****************
FEDDOC
Unethical? How so? They made claims to have killed numerous animals that same year and I thought it unethical or unsportsmanlike on their parts and simply gave them an unspoken challenge to do so again. If they weren't up to the challenge that was their problem.
I was never a wallflower in the cook tent when these guys made claims and was up front about how I felt. At no time was I ever stepping outside the guidelines or professional standards at set forth by the outfitters and guide association rules. I just made them work for the shots.
If someone wants to go to a pasture and shoot a tethered animal and call it hunting, I'm not impressed.
Semper Fi
Rocky

 

[feddoc]

Rocky, It is possible I misunderstood this part of your post...if so, I apologize.

When you said this: (The jerks who wanted to shoot just because they paid for a hunt had to work for it and I'd work their ass off going up and down hills (like at 10'000 msl) and put them in a breathless position to shoot on an animal. If they werent' capable of making the shot, so what?) it appeared as though you did so out of spite. We all know that huffin and puffin makes for a bad shot.

 

[FlyinRock]

FEDDOC
I suspect this is a point of view best discussed in person over a few brews to avoid misunderstanding. Most of the clients I had were there for a good hunt and to enjoy it. A very few came in just to kill something and they really didn't give a shit how or where. Those are the ones that got to me and the ones I am referring to.
Yes it was hard on them to run their ass up a hill to take a shot, and yes I expected them to miss it but was ready to follow up in case of a poor shot. No I didn't drink with them in the cook tent after the day was done. I still had the fire going in their tent and hot coffee at their side in the early A.M. when they woke up, and I made sure they got a good meal, and all the amenities that go with a guided hunt.
We promised them a full belly and a tired ass with opportunity to shoot at game of their choice (with proper tags of course). When I had a client who had saved for years to go on a hunt of a lifetime, I busted my ass to make it the hunt of a lifetime for them. If the client was a genuine trophy hunter, it was apparent quickly in camp and I'd work hard to get them the trophy they hoped for. I admired them when they'd pass on shots for something less than they wanted and they never complained.
Then there were the jerks who had little respect for the camp, other hunters, the camp crew, the guides, the cook, the wranglers, or the wildlife. I had no control over who came into the camp or the bookings. I just had to deal with them.
If you tell me you are in shape and can handle anything, I'll take you at your word until you prove different. Bullshit doesn't last long in any of my hunting camps and its not just me saying that. Fortunately the numbers of jerks was very small but their smell lingered for years.
Sincere Best Regards
Semper Fi
Rocky