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Ammo, Ammo, Ammo

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
For Christmas I got a great present from myself, a Rock River AR 15. This one:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=221

In anticipation of a new AWB, I have also been stocking up on ammo. I came across a pretty good deal on Hornady TAP, and got several boxes including some 75 Grain ammo. I have been doing some additional reading to learn more about my weapon and other options for it, and came across this:

http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=81462

The guy seems to know his stuff, but claims that you need a barrel with a 1:7 twist to shoot 75gr ammo. My rifle (and damn near all new RRAs) come with a 1:9 twist. The last thing that I want to do is wear out my barrel early, and I damn sure don't want to throw rounds down range that are tumbling.

Do any of you have any experience with shooting 75gr with a 1:9 tube? Am I worried for nothing? Should I have bought a rifle with a 1:7 twist? Does it even matter?

Thanks
 

C420sailor

Former Rhino Bro
pilot
Generally, the heavier the round the faster the twist rate required to stabilize it in flight. 1-9 is the typical twist rate on, I believe, all A2 and newer variants. It's great for the bulk of your target shooting, which will probably be 55gr FMJ.

My rifle has a 1-8 twist SS bull barrel, designed for longer range match shooting. I've never shot the specific ammo you're referring to, however I have fired some heavy grain (77 I think) Black Hills. I didn't have a problem and I don't think you will either, especially in the personal defense role.
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Just curious; what's your rationale for using the AR platform for home defense as opposed to, say, a handgun or shotgun? I'm no ballistics expert, but couldn't there be overpenetration issues with a rifle round?
 

FlyinRock

Registered User
And your plan for this gun is what? Sub minute accuracy, or records or what?
Don't expect to win any major races with a street car.
If you are planning to get into firefights at less than 200 m I don't think it matters if you can do 4" groups.
So, what is your intent or purpose with this gun?
Ol Shy & Bashful
 

C420sailor

Former Rhino Bro
pilot
Just curious; what's your rationale for using the AR platform for home defense as opposed to, say, a handgun or shotgun? I'm no ballistics expert, but couldn't there be overpenetration issues with a rifle round?
The common belief that 5.56x45 NATO or .223 Remington will pass through your target and the next four houses is an old wives tale, especially when using JHP or frangible ammunition.

Now if you're shooting SS109 in your home, then you may have to worry about the neighbors. Maybe.

Personally, I think an AR with an 11.5" barrel (registered SBR with the BATF, of course) is a fantastic home defense weapon. You won't be able to bayonet anyone with it, but who cares? Put the front sight over the perp and let him have it.
 

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
Just curious; what's your rationale for using the AR platform for home defense as opposed to, say, a handgun or shotgun? I'm no ballistics expert, but couldn't there be overpenetration issues with a rifle round?
I call my AR-15 my "food riot" gun. It's kind of a joke, but there are places in Memphis that I feel unprepared with anything less than crew served GAU-17's in the bed of my truck. I live about 15 miles from the downtown and high crime areas, but it is getting worse and crime is on the rise in the burbs. Still, I have a .45 and a 9mm that would be my first choice if someone were trying to get into the house. I also have a 12 gauge that would get someone's attention. I carry a Walther PPK when out and about.

As much as I enjoy target shooting, I want to have plenty of .223 "personal defense ammo" just in case. In case of what? Who the hell knows. It just makes me feel good to have it. Does that make me crazy? It's also the ammo most likley to get banned first. I don't like people telling me that I can't have something.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
Just curious; what's your rationale for using the AR platform for home defense as opposed to, say, a handgun or shotgun? I'm no ballistics expert, but couldn't there be overpenetration issues with a rifle round?
Actually all the research done into using Short Barreled Carbines vs Sub Machine Guns for SWAT work has demonstrated that the 5.56 is actually less likely to overpenetrate than a 9mm. The rounds lack of density combined with its extreamly high velocity lends it to typically shatter at the ranges you'd find yourself shooting at.

Im a big fan of Hornady TAP. Been using it in my pistols for years. The ballistics on it are great (especially when shooting through a semi-hard barrier like windshield glass) and to top it off they put that "anti-corrosive coating" on it which just looks cool as hell.
 

Rocketman

Rockets Up
Contributor
What C420sailor and Lawman said.

Even a 9mm hollow point when it's filled with sheetrock acts like ball and can overpenetrate.

Most of my AR's are 1-9 twist. While 1-9 isn't the best for stabilizing heavy rounds, my AR's are all plenty accurate with 75 gr rounds out to 100 yards. As a citizen if you ever shoot anyone much farther away than "across the room" distance you may find yourself in some serious trouble with the man. Every state looks at self defense differently so YMMV. For me as long as I can stay min of pie plate I'm golden.

My personel concern with using an AR for home defense isn't accuracy or overpenetration, it's noise. I hope I NEVER have to fire an AR inside without ear protection. That would hurt.

That said my house gun is an RRA with a light weight 16" 1-9 barrel. It's loaded with 75 gr TAP in 5.56. Why? Because it's what I shoot best and that's what matters.
 

Rocketman

Rockets Up
Contributor
Just curious; what's your rationale for using the AR platform for home defense as opposed to, say, a handgun or shotgun? I'm no ballistics expert, but couldn't there be overpenetration issues with a rifle round?
What I've had pounded into my head and what I believe is that a handgun good for only one thing. To fight your way to a long gun of some kind. Or maybe to fight your way to cover so you can reload/clear your long gun.

The main reason I would choose a rifle over a shotgun is because I can imagine certain situations where I might need more precision than a shotgun offers.

Only hits count and hitting with a hand gun is hard under the best of conditions. Even for the pros.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
My personel concern with using an AR for home defense isn't accuracy or overpenetration, it's noise. I hope I NEVER have to fire an AR inside without ear protection. That would hurt.
Secondary issue, to think about before and after the fact but not during, if you shoot someone with that weapon be prepaired to hold that same weapon up in court in front of people who dont know dick about guns. Before Ohio passed the law that automatically protects anyone from civil law suit that was found to be in the right criminally you'd have to be crazy to use an AR (especially one all tacticool) for Home Defence. Because come the time your sitting in civil court and the family suing you for shooting Poor Ray Ray you will have to try to not look like the crazy gun guy that was out to shoot somebody. It has happened before, so something to think about depending on your states laws. If your in Texas.... hey go crazy.
 

Rocketman

Rockets Up
Contributor
Secondary issue, to think about before and after the fact but not during, if you shoot someone with that weapon be prepaired to hold that same weapon up in court in front of people who dont know dick about guns. Before Ohio passed the law that automatically protects anyone from civil law suit that was found to be in the right criminally you'd have to be crazy to use an AR (especially one all tacticool) for Home Defence. Because come the time your sitting in civil court and the family suing you for shooting Poor Ray Ray you will have to try to not look like the crazy gun guy that was out to shoot somebody. It has happened before, so something to think about depending on your states laws. If your in Texas.... hey go crazy.
With that in mind and Texicans aside, I guess the old 870 probably would be a great choice for most folks.
 

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
I am a displaced Texan living in Tennessee. If I ever have to, I plan to argue that the "Texas State Line" sign in my garage establishes my residence as a Republic of Texas Embassy, and I should be subject to laws of my home Nation...I mean state.
 

NozeMan

Are you threatening me?
pilot
Super Moderator
Florida's Castle Doctrine is also meant to defend the homeowner/resident from civil recourse.
 

feddoc

Really old guy
Super Moderator
Contributor
Twist rate is more for stability of the longer bullet; it just happens to weigh more. A longer projectile will need to spin a bit more in order to remain stable.
 
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