Academy or NROTC?

[phrogdriver]

I understand that OCS curriculum is similar to NROTC, but I feel that the people with whom I went through orientation week with freshman year who just commissioned a few weeks ago will not make good officers. .

Or maybe they've learned a couple things in the four years since orientation, which is, after all, the whole point.

If you were ready to be a good officer at orientation, we could save a whole lot of time and money on all that "training" stuff.

 

[usmarinemike]

ahem...I'd like to offer the suggestion (as a former college program midn who got f***ed by CNET after my 3rd class year) that NROTC is not a good way to make officers. I am heading to OCS next week and I don't think I would know the first thing about being an officer if the Navy kept me in NROTC. I understand that OCS curriculum is similar to NROTC, but I feel that the people with whom I went through orientation week with freshman year who just commissioned a few weeks ago will not make good officers. Maybe it's me being bitter, maybe it's the individual people and it's not the same everywhere else, but I personally think that every ROTC midshipman should have to at least go to a shortened version of OCS like the Marines do. I'll step off my soapbox now. Thank you.

And just what the hell makes you think you'll be better than them coming out of OCS? You'll be a chucklehead with absolutely no real world experience just like those midshipmen.

As far as Marine OCS (PLC/ROTC type), most people honestly don't come out knowing any more or in any better shape than when they went in. It's primarily for screening and evaluation. That's why attrition is so much higher than at places like enlisted boot camp where the mission really is a huge amount of entry level training. From what I've seen, NROTC does a fine job at attriting before commissioning. Take that for what it's worth. Best of luck at OCS.

 

[statesman]

Or maybe they've learned a couple things in the four years since orientation, which is, after all, the whole point.

If you were ready to be a good officer at orientation, we could save a whole lot of time and money on all that "training" stuff.

Today I learned in ROTC that leaders are made not born.

/end being a jack@$$

 

[NozeMan]

ahem...I'd like to offer the suggestion (as a former college program midn who got f***ed by CNET after my 3rd class year) that NROTC is not a good way to make officers. I am heading to OCS next week and I don't think I would know the first thing about being an officer if the Navy kept me in NROTC. I understand that OCS curriculum is similar to NROTC, but I feel that the people with whom I went through orientation week with freshman year who just commissioned a few weeks ago will not make good officers. Maybe it's me being bitter, maybe it's the individual people and it's not the same everywhere else, but I personally think that every ROTC midshipman should have to at least go to a shortened version of OCS like the Marines do. I'll step off my soapbox now. Thank you.

So you are an NROTC drop out?

I guess that makes you a legitimate judge of talent. You're probably right though, I'm sure all your classmates will be sh!tty officers, you'll be better off doing OCS....

FYI, you learn more about being a leader in the SECOND half of your NROTC experience. Plenty of people struggle enough following directions in the first few years.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

ahem...I'd like to offer the suggestion (as a former college program midn who got f***ed by CNET after my 3rd class year) that NROTC is not a good way to make officers. I am heading to OCS next week and I don't think I would know the first thing about being an officer if the Navy kept me in NROTC. I understand that OCS curriculum is similar to NROTC, but I feel that the people with whom I went through orientation week with freshman year who just commissioned a few weeks ago will not make good officers. Maybe it's me being bitter, maybe it's the individual people and it's not the same everywhere else, but I personally think that every ROTC midshipman should have to at least go to a shortened version of OCS like the Marines do. I'll step off my soapbox now. Thank you.

There are many who disagree with you, not only here on this forum, but also in the higher echelons of the Navy. With that said, I tend to agree with what I think you are trying to say. Without having been an officer for at least a few years, you lack the requisite experience, exposure and situational awareness that would lead to an intelligent assessment of ROTC. You are biased, most likely due to your negative experience with your scholarship. In my experience folks from OCS show up to their first assignment with a little more gusto than their ROTC counterparts. The OCS bubbas have the benefit of experiencing a highly disciplined program of instruction compared to guys that are a product of ROTC. Both sources produce quality officers. However, I also believe that every Naval officer (except Academy bubbas) should go through OCS.

 

[usmarinemike]

There are many who disagree with you, not only here on this forum, but also in the higher echelons of the Navy. With that said, I tend to agree with what I think you are trying to say. Without having been an officer for at least a few years, you lack the requisite experience, exposure and situational awareness that would lead to an intelligent assessment of ROTC. You are biased, most likely due to your negative experience with your scholarship. In my experience folks from OCS show up to their first assignment with a little more gusto than their ROTC counterparts. The OCS bubbas have the benefit of experiencing a highly disciplined program of instruction compared to guys that are a product of ROTC. Both sources produce quality officers. However, I also believe that every Naval officer (except Academy bubbas) should go through OCS.

Interesting to get a measured and experienced opinion on the matter. What would the mission be of OCS for ROTC guys? Most have the knowledge portion down cold already. Would it be to introduce the ROTC guys to marshal rigor and heftier doses of discipline that cause the other OCS candidates to have that gusto? Perhaps there could simply be a change in culture in the ROTC units to make them look more like the Corps of Cadets down at A&M for example. That way the guys can be introduced to military rigor & also have that comfort that ROTC guys show (beneficial as long as it doesn't cross into lazy or insubordinate).

 

[pennst8]

Perhaps there could simply be a change in culture in the ROTC units to make them look more like the Corps of Cadets down at A&M for example.

Yeah because we all know the Navy runs like the Corps of Cadets.:icon_tong

A lot of the guys I've seen that did the "corps" type training get either burned out or require months of deprogramming before they get off the toolbag express.

@Steve - If this hypothetical OCS program you've proposed is going to be good for ROTC/BDCP/OCS guys why not send USNA as well? I've met just as many dirtbags/fvckups/complete idiots from Annapolis as I have from any other source.

 

[statesman]

I would imagine because they go through Plebe summer.

If the dirtbag doesnt come out of them throughout Plebe summer it probably wont when they go through OCS.

 

[snake020]

One consideration which is often forgotten about is the GI Bill. If you go Academy or ROTC scholarship, you won't be eligible for that benefit. TA is nice, but if you want to go to a good postgrad program that costs $$$ while in or out of the service, GI Bill is an invaluable benefit to have.

 

[xj220]

Good luck getting Academy guys to go to an OCS like program after graduation. While I can't speak first hand on ROTC or OCS, but coming out of the Academy there's a feeling of "we've paid our dues." By no means am I trying to sound arrogant, but after coming through that program we're ready to start the fleet. Of course there's s-bags with any commissioning source and someone said it right that if plebe summer (or four years) doesn't get it out of them, then nothing will. I just graduated a week ago so if you have any Academy questions, I would be more than happy to answer them for you. I've talked to many prospective students (and having been one myself four years ago), I can give you an honest, no-bull assessment.

 

[pennst8]

Good luck getting Academy guys to go to an OCS like program after graduation.

The same could be said for ROTC grads. The resistance would be fierce. That being said, we'd all go if ordered to.

there's a feeling of "we've paid our dues."

You might wanna lose that one quickly, there's a lot of bullshit to put up with in flight school as well and the humble, polite student card is usually a solid choice. Ensigns might be the cock of the walk elsewhere but in Pensacola you're dirt to most people.

I still haven't seen a good explanation on why you guys think ROTC needs to go to an OCS type program. Again the program has worked for years, why fix something that isn't broken?

 

[Thisguy]

there's a feeling of "we've paid our dues."

Concur with what Pennst8 said about this "feeling." Especially when you get to the fleet and are the FNG.

 

[statesman]

I think OCS should be your 3/c cruise. That way you dont have to do it when your done. The Marines do theirs during their 2/c cruise, but I think the Navy 2/c cruises (especially the aviation ones) are valuable teaching tools.

 

[xj220]

I'm not saying ROTC should have to do an OCS type thing, I'm merely speaking for an Academy point of view. As for the "we've paid our dues" comment, I'm not saying we're special but that we've gone through enough training and regiment that we shouldn't have to go through anymore to get to the fleet.

 

[Tom]

One consideration which is often forgotten about is the GI Bill. If you go Academy or ROTC scholarship, you won't be eligible for that benefit. TA is nice, but if you want to go to a good postgrad program that costs $$$ while in or out of the service, GI Bill is an invaluable benefit to have.

Another part of BDCP allows you the GI Bill...it just gets better and better.