14 MAY 18 SWO BOARD

[Stephem]

How long does it take to class up for OCS when selected for SWO? I am active duty and 33 turning 34 y/o in November. I am PCSing soon so I do not have enough time to apply for the upcoming board. I will have to wait for the August or November board. Just wondering if my age will be an issue.

 

[Vincent]

I am no fan of being negative and discouraging, however one thing I'd like to say is the pre-reqs are extremely specific regarding SWO IRT the age limit and making exceptions. If you will not be commissioned by the time you hit 35 then it will be an issue. HOWEVER, I've recently spoken with an Admiral that was involved with a majority of the FY17/18 SWO boards and he expressed that if they recommend you, then they have recommended you. Period. If age is an issue then you won't be recommended, is essentially how he explained it to me. So I, random dude on the internet, would suggest you just apply when you can and go from there. The processor will either put your application up for the board if everything checks out - or not. Let them tell you no. Not some forum on the internet.

 

[Stephem]

I am no fan of being negative and discouraging, however one thing I'd like to say is the pre-reqs are extremely specific regarding SWO IRT the age limit and making exceptions. If you will not be commissioned by the time you hit 35 then it will be an issue. HOWEVER, I've recently spoken with an Admiral that was involved with a majority of the FY17/18 SWO boards and he expressed that if they recommend you, then they have recommended you. Period. If age is an issue then you won't be recommended, is essentially how he explained it to me. So I, random dude on the internet, would suggest you just apply when you can and go from there. The processor will either put your application up for the board if everything checks out - or not. Let them tell you no. Not some forum on the internet.

Thanks for the info! I will apply anyway no matter what I hear here. I just wanted to have an idea of the timeline from being pro rec to classing up for OCS.

 

[Vincent]

I will apply anyway no matter what I hear here.

That's great to hear!

Regarding the timeline, if you take a look at the purgatory thread there is a massive amount of different timelines for each person. I would highly suggest just doing your best to go with the flow and not even stress that stuff. I can almost guarantee you will be unable to guage much of any sort of timeline until you actually get to your first rack at OCS itself!

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Thank you for your suggestion. For your information, LDO's minimum is 8 years in. I have been in for 2.5ish and with the points I have towards this next exam, my CO's approval for a Time in Rate reduction, I will be a 3 year first class before I left my first command. I do not plan on waiting 5 more years to apply to be an officer. I am too old for any other programs. I will apply to every board I am eligible for until I make it.

I have seen it twice with sub 2.10 GPAs get picked up being active duty.

you realize the best chance for selection is the first board a person goes to, from that point after the odds go down.

There have been a few with very low GPA's get picked up before in the past but the ones I saw were SNA and had PFAR of 9

Not sure if you came in with your degree or if you talked to an OR prior but they should have given you the info then.

 

[Vincent]

you realize the best chance for selection is the first board a person goes to, from that point after the odds go down.

This is blatantly wrong information, especially WRT Fleet Applicants. Go around the fleet to prior OCS Commissioned, who are priors, and ask how many boards it took. You'll hear it often, 2, maybe 3, I know some that are 4. My current Dept. Head took 4 attempts to get into OCS being a MM2. My Current CSIO took 3 being an old RM1. My Current CSO took 2 from being FC2 that made FC1 right before he hit Newport. And my XO took 3 was a QM2. There are currently 6 JO ENS/LTJG SWOs onboard who ALL took 2-3 times. There are those that are here as well that were civilians and applied more than once before getting picked up. On other ships in my AOR have officers with all the same. I had to get flown to the USS Greenbay to take care of some stuff and met their Triad and a bunch of their Dept. Heads. We had an awesome conversation about "priors" going to OCS instead of LDO and a lot chimed in during that meeting with encouragement about exactly what I am telling you now.

I'm not even counting the ones that I have met since Bootcamp. I ask every officer I meet - through what program they commissioned and if they were prior enlisted.

To those of you, who were like me, just reading these threads and not participating. Do not get discouraged. Keep busting your ass and proving yourself.

I would argue, unfortunately through confirmation bias, that retention is higher in people that want this badly. Manning is an issue especially as our fleet expands and to say that people who apply more than once have the odds go down seems unrealistic. Why would they waste time with reconsideration packages if the very idea of re-applying the "odds go down"

I am not sure what your goal is with the information you're providing to me.

As far as what the OR said - I got the same reaction from the OR that you're giving me now. Recruiters are not the end all be all. It's just a billet for almost all of them, they don't care and are enjoying their shore time.

I have no problem with "steep" battles. Bring it on. I'll make it sooner or later. I'll just keep knocking out my Master's degree and keep truckin forward.

Regarding your other point, I came in with my Degree needing 2 credits and waited until I was a 2nd Class to knock the last 2 credits out to use them as points. I owned a small business before joining which is why I left school and didn't finish.

On the off chance I do not make it this board, I will continue to build my network and update this thread. However, if I do make it you can adjust the information you put out.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

This is blatantly wrong information, especially WRT Fleet Applicants. Go around the fleet to prior OCS Commissioned, who are priors, and ask how many boards it took. You'll hear it often, 2, maybe 3, I know some that are 4. My current Dept. Head took 4 attempts to get into OCS being a MM2. My Current CSIO took 3 being an old RM1. My Current CSO took 2 from being FC2 that made FC1 right before he hit Newport. And my XO took 3 was a QM2. There are currently 6 JO ENS/LTJG SWOs onboard who ALL took 2-3 times. There are those that are here as well that were civilians and applied more than once before getting picked up. On other ships in my AOR have officers with all the same. I had to get flown to the USS Greenbay to take care of some stuff and met their Triad and a bunch of their Dept. Heads. We had an awesome conversation about "priors" going to OCS instead of LDO and a lot chimed in during that meeting with encouragement about exactly what I am telling you now.

I'm not even counting the ones that I have met since Bootcamp. I ask every officer I meet - through what program they commissioned and if they were prior enlisted.

To those of you, who were like me, just reading these threads and not participating. Do not get discouraged. Keep busting your ass and proving yourself.

I would argue, unfortunately through confirmation bias, that retention is higher in people that want this badly. Manning is an issue especially as our fleet expands and to say that people who apply more than once have the odds go down seems unrealistic. Why would they waste time with reconsideration packages if the very idea of re-applying the "odds go down"

I am not sure what your goal is with the information you're providing to me.

As far as what the OR said - I got the same reaction from the OR that you're giving me now. Recruiters are not the end all be all. It's just a billet for almost all of them, they don't care and are enjoying their shore time.

I have no problem with "steep" battles. Bring it on. I'll make it sooner or later. I'll just keep knocking out my Master's degree and keep truckin forward.

Regarding your other point, I came in with my Degree needing 2 credits and waited until I was a 2nd Class to knock the last 2 credits out to use them as points. I owned a small business before joining which is why I left school and didn't finish.

On the off chance I do not make it this board, I will continue to build my network and update this thread. However, if I do make it you can adjust the information you put out.

You are just plain wrong, the data that was pulled over many years plainly says your first board is your best chance unless you do something like get a Masters or PhD, then you have done something to have your application looked at as a "fresh" application, otherwise the board sees the same person applying for the same designator with nothing new, they take minutes in most cases for the first cut, there have been boards for IWC where they had so many applicants that for several boards they made one cut for anyone under a 3.00 GPA!

There have been people who get a "N" for a 10% selection rate community such as IWC and then apply again for SWO, but they aren't apply for the same designator so different standards different board.

You may find a person here or there, but the data doesn't lie, and people like @RUFiO181 and myself who have put in more applications and had more people selected for OCS than most OR's know what really happens, and BTW I was a CCC at sea so I also put together fleet applications for OCS and nearly all selected had GPA's north of 3.0

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

This is blatantly wrong information, especially WRT Fleet Applicants. Go around the fleet to prior OCS Commissioned, who are priors, and ask how many boards it took. You'll hear it often, 2, maybe 3, I know some that are 4. My current Dept. Head took 4 attempts to get into OCS being a MM2. My Current CSIO took 3 being an old RM1. My Current CSO took 2 from being FC2 that made FC1 right before he hit Newport. And my XO took 3 was a QM2. There are currently 6 JO ENS/LTJG SWOs onboard who ALL took 2-3 times. There are those that are here as well that were civilians and applied more than once before getting picked up. On other ships in my AOR have officers with all the same. I had to get flown to the USS Greenbay to take care of some stuff and met their Triad and a bunch of their Dept. Heads. We had an awesome conversation about "priors" going to OCS instead of LDO and a lot chimed in during that meeting with encouragement about exactly what I am telling you now.

FACT Check: Your XO went the ECP (now known as STA-21) route vice OCS. I'm certain there are others who went the same route as well. Those programs you are competing enlisted vs. enlisted where GPA isn't as big of a factor. Just like applying for CPO, it's not uncommon for enlisted to get selected for LDO and STA-21 on several attempts. For OCS, you are competing against enlisted and civilians alike who have high GPAs and OAR scores - which are the two biggest factors for getting serious considered for programs like SWO. All the other people you mention... even if they did go the OCS route they applied during times where competition wasn't as stiff.

You talk about finding active duty folks who gotten selected once, twice, even several times. Find the even greater active duty enlisted who have applied countless times and not get picked up. We have a YN2 in our command who has applied countless times to OCS programs, not to get selected. He has a 2.87 GPA, 55 OAR score, impressive evals/awards (got an NCM for a National Sailor of the Year), and interviews from SWO Captains - all 10s. Guess what? He didn't get selected! Reason why: his low GPA. This YN2 works at an NRD and all of us who work here reviewed his application and ensured he submitted the best product possible.

You are turning into another @Sean Bishop. You're an active duty guy who thinks they should automatically be selected because you are enlisted and have a degree. You get a waiver/exception to policy and expect that to be your ticket to being selected. What you/him don't take into account are the various criteria and competitiveness these boards have. You don't listed to folks, like myself and @NavyOffRec who have several years experience putting officer candidates into the Navy. And surprise... you don't get selected! You reapply and surprise again... a non-select! The selection boards don't care if you're active duty/prior enlisted and/or how many LORs/interviews you have from Captains and Admirals. It's not fair when there are candidates out there who don't know "the right people" but have a high GPA, the right degree, and lastly the OAR score the selection boards are looking for. These candidates don't need GPA waivers or favors to get themselves to the board. In the end, you still have a 2.05 undergraduate GPA competing against those who, on average, have GPAs around a 3.4 or higher.

Our jobs aren't to prevent you from being an officer. Our job is to enforce the PAs/requirements and to set yourself up for success. Right now, you're simply not listening.

 

[Vincent]

I wrote this long reply but I don't have the time for a debate. I think you both are gravely misunderstanding my attitude and resolve. Just having my degree and enlisted is not a reason I "should" be commissioned and would be pretty arrogant of me to believe something like that.

If I get picked up great, If not I will continue to work hard and make additions to my package, interview with more higher ups until I network and meet with the N1 of the Navy and have him interview me and make a recommendation to the board.

Also, the XO you are fact checking is now our current CO and we was an Aviator not a SWO I know he went STA-21. We have a new XO which is the one I am referencing and if he didn't go OCS the others certainly did. Ultimately, it's irrelevant.

I only checked in to this thread, I didn't ask for any assistance. To the boardees, good luck to you.

 

[Sean Bishop]

FACT Check: Your XO went the ECP (now known as STA-21) route vice OCS. I'm certain there are others who went the same route as well. Those programs you are competing enlisted vs. enlisted where GPA isn't as big of a factor. Just like applying for CPO, it's not uncommon for enlisted to get selected for LDO and STA-21 on several attempts. For OCS, you are competing against enlisted and civilians alike who have high GPAs and OAR scores - which are the two biggest factors for getting serious considered for programs like SWO. All the other people you mention... even if they did go the OCS route they applied during times where competition wasn't as stiff.

You talk about finding active duty folks who gotten selected once, twice, even several times. Find the even greater active duty enlisted who have applied countless times and not get picked up. We have a YN2 in our command who has applied countless times to OCS programs, not to get selected. He has a 2.87 GPA, 55 OAR score, impressive evals/awards (got an NCM for a National Sailor of the Year), and interviews from SWO Captains - all 10s. Guess what? He didn't get selected! Reason why: his low GPA. This YN2 works at an NRD and all of us who work here reviewed his application and ensured he submitted the best product possible.

You are turning into another @Sean Bishop. You're an active duty guy who thinks they should automatically be selected because you are enlisted and have a degree. You get a waiver/exception to policy and expect that to be your ticket to being selected. What you/him don't take into account are the various criteria and competitiveness these boards have. You don't listed to folks, like myself and @NavyOffRec who have several years experience putting officer candidates into the Navy. And surprise... you don't get selected! You reapply and surprise again... a non-select! The selection boards don't care if you're active duty/prior enlisted and/or how many LORs/interviews you have from Captains and Admirals. It's not fair when there are candidates out there who don't know "the right people" but have a high GPA, the right degree, and lastly the OAR score the selection boards are looking for. These candidates don't need GPA waivers or favors to get themselves to the board. In the end, you still have a 2.05 undergraduate GPA competing against those who, on average, have GPAs around a 3.4 or higher.

Our jobs aren't to prevent you from being an officer. Our job is to enforce the PAs/requirements and to set yourself up for success. Right now, you're simply not listening.

FACT CHECK: My GPA, to include my Master's, is above a 3.5. I applied to a program that has below a 20% selection rate 3 times...my mistake. I have no waivers or exception to policies. Please don't "mention" me again in a comment to strengthen your argument. I am still well within age limit. In fact, I can easily release myself from AD in a few months and apply with the civilian crowd. With that said, no matter where I am, civilian or AD, I will continue to apply. I don't believe being enlisted with a Master's degree automatically means I will be selected for a commission. I have never once said that. I do, however, know my worth and will never settle on selling myself short. It is true that I am well overqualified for my current position and there is nothing anyone can say to prove otherwise. I did not enlist at 18 and earn my degrees while enlisted. I enlisted after earning my degrees and after experiencing life to include living and working in 4 continents. Again, do not "mention" me in a comment when you know absolutely nothing about me.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

FACT CHECK: My GPA, to include my Master's, is above a 3.5. I applied to a program that has below a 20% selection rate 3 times...my mistake. I have no waivers or exception to policies. Please don't "mention" me again in a comment to strengthen your argument. I am still well within age limit. In fact, I can easily release myself from AD in a few months and apply with the civilian crowd. With that said, no matter where I am, civilian or AD, I will continue to apply. I don't believe being enlisted with a Master's degree automatically means I will be selected for a commission. I have never once said that. I do, however, know my worth and will never settle on selling myself short. It is true that I am well overqualified for my current position and there is nothing anyone can say to prove otherwise. I did not enlist at 18 and earn my degrees while enlisted. I enlisted after earning my degrees and after experiencing life to include living and working in 4 continents. Again, do not "mention" me in a comment when you know absolutely nothing about me.

The part you didn't mention was the incredibly low OAR score you had/have. You had to not a waiver, but an ETP just to get to the board. In addition, you were applying for a program (Supply Corps) in which you had a very slim chance with no STEM or business degrees. We encouraged you to consider other options or pursue a degree that can make you eligible AND competitive for Supply Corps and Intel. But you didn't listen and behold you are 0 for 3 applying for officer programs.

 

[Sean Bishop]

The part you didn't mention was the incredibly low OAR score you had/have. You had to not a waiver, but an ETP just to get to the board. In addition, you were applying for a program (Supply Corps) in which you had a very slim chance with no STEM or business degrees. We encouraged you to consider other options or pursue a degree that can make you eligible AND competitive for Supply Corps and Intel. But you didn't listen and behold you are 0 for 3 applying for officer programs.

This is incorrect. I stopped applying for Supply after 3 times and applied to SWO after the most recent PA was released allowing AD individuals up to 35 to apply given that they have EP/MP evals. I do not need an ETP or a WAIVER in accordance with the CURRENT SWO PA. Considering I applied for SWO after you advised me to look at SWO as an option, I would say that I did indeed take your advice. Please, no more bad gouge.

 

[jRiot504]

 

[Foxtrot-Lima_Gator]

I just found out that an age waiver has been submitted with my application because realistically I will be 29 (Aug 11) well before commissioning from OCS assuming I am selected. From what I have been reading is that competing as a civilian for OCS, these waivers drastically reduce any chances of consideration.

Question: how detrimental is this waiver for my application?

 

[hokies2018]

Checking in.
Virginia Tech: Dec 2018 Grad
BS Civil Engineering: 3.1
OAR: 69
LOR's: O8 SWO, O6 SWO, Intern supervisor
Extracurriculars: Fraternity president, engineering group founder, SGA rep, newspaper columnist, club sports
Choices: Intel, SWO