Haha, one of my friends from UPT made and passed that video to me...He's a FAIP now. Poor bastard.
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
The perennial Navy vs AF flight school smackdown (split from the "What %" article)
- Thread starter scoolbubba
- Start date
Haha, one of my friends from UPT made and passed that video to me...He's a FAIP now. Poor bastard.
Just curious in case any E-6 guys are watching this thread, was advanced training in the T-1 similiar to what people are saying about Vance primary with 12 hour mandatory days, stand up EP's, etc...? Also, how long was advanced and were there a fair share of Navy IP's there at all? I've browsed through some of the TACAMO threads but only really saw stuff on the typical lifestyle of a winged E-6 pilot. Just some things I've been pondering with selection around the corner as I prepare my dream sheet, not that I would be turned off of a community because of 6-10 months of suck, just curious.
That's pretty damn funny. What is QUEEPZILLA and what's with the yellow helmet bit?
The video below an explanation of what this QUEEP is... (And proof that even the AF dudes hate ENID!) :icon_wink
I'm guessing the yellow helmet is an inside joke about a 'special' stud, and queep is (if I remember correctly) kind of like bullshit, retarded minutia. I remember IPs bitching about queep-creep as things like Cross Country rules, liberty/alcohol rules got more restrictive. Maybe Hacker can let me know if I shacked that, or if I should shak myself. Damn the Air Force...even their jargon is terrible.
E-6 selectors come to VT-31 and fly the T-44C now so disregard this thread if E-6s is your interest.
I was one of the first (read #7ish) to do the T-1 deal to go E-6s back in 1995 at Reese AFB. Being the first at anything is not good. I won't say anymore because my therapist says to let it go.
Mileage varies on the "typical lifestyle" questions. Missions are changed/added/deleted as the years pass. I can say that you will travel more than people think. In my 42 month tour I was gone 23 months...3-4 weeks at a time. It would have been more, but I missed a few dets for one reason or another. The joint mission ensures the funding lines so facilities are top notch to include the alert facilities at the AF bases. I'll leave the rest to more recent E-6 dudes as it has been ten years since I was there. FWIW, I would do it again. E-6s is the smallest selection number out of primary and, IMO, the hardest to get. 18-20 slots per year....about 2-3% if I remember correctly from when I worked selections. You need to be the number one guy who asked for it and there needs to be a slot available that week. Good luck!
Correct!
Well, first, have some perspective on things. In this particular instance, you're talking about a kid being "sat down" during a morning Stand Up (ergo, busting that particular exercise). Realize the impact of this is pretty minimal -- he doesn't fly for one of three periods during the day, and a bad mark is in his gradebook. Yawn...not exactly a significant impact to a kid's UPT performance. Yet, to hear some people talk about it on this board, you'd think that the AF was plucking fingernails out or something.
Anyway, one of the big purposes of the stand-up is to make Stan work through his emergency while under stress. Since we can't have one of the IPs stand behind the student with a loaded .45 to the back of his skull (in case he screws up), we have to come up with some artificial means of creating that stress. Why? Because there's no way to simulate the actual stress experienced in flight when an emergency occurs while you're at zero knots and one G. Remember that the other purpose of the stand up is to make the student be able to methodically talk their way through an emergency, drawing on (and demonstrating) their knowledge of aircraft systems and other in-flight procedures, and we want to test that skill under a little bit of stress.
So, making him stand up in front of the class....making him stand at attention....making some *SIMPLE* but must-be-followed-or-else rules that they have to follow....are just some ways of creating that stressful environment.
Look, dudes...yes, it's a haze, but it also is a very effective training mechanism for primary. I know this is the "take pot-shots at UPT" thread (regardless of the thread title, the only one who is under fire in this thread is the AF -- I haven't seen a single criticism of the Navy program yet), but how is this any different than the 35 memorized emergencies and all the "course rules" memorization in maritime training? It's the same idiocy, with it focused in a different area.
This "there is a boldface that applies" issue is just one of the simple rules of engagement for HOW you are supposed to talk your way through a stand up. When you come to the point in the discussion when you would execute a boldface, you stop, say "there's a boldface that applies, the boldface is...." and then you say it.
Jesus, exactly how hard is it to do that? I swear the people who are bitching about this wear little frilly panties at night. If you went to UPT and this is your biggest complaint, then you seriously have a retarded perspective.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Hacker, as always - great explanation. Although I think you're on to something with this loaded .45 idea... Now if only we could figure out an ORM matrix for it...
I kinda understand, as we were always taught to study the EPs while doing something else that required your attention. I had my "morning standup" dealing with Pensacola traffic while reciting EPs.
Oh, and I'll take a potshot at Navy flight school. You never know when the hell you're going to finish and sometimes it seems to change by the day.
I kinda understand, as we were always taught to study the EPs while doing something else that required your attention. I had my "morning standup" dealing with Pensacola traffic while reciting EPs.
Oh, and I'll take a potshot at Navy flight school. You never know when the hell you're going to finish and sometimes it seems to change by the day.
I've got a criticism of the Navy program .... my VT-4 pre-solo Air-to-Air GUN INSTRUCTOR (and program GUN 'BOSS') was an AF exchange Instructor ... :icon_boun ... and he wore black leather jackboots (seriously) .... and he was a Nazi (seriously). How's that for a NAVAIRTRACOM criticism ???
At our 'in-brief', he screamed to the 20-30 man class:
"THIS PROGRAM MAKES ME SICK !!!"
"The Air Force has NOTHING that compares with this ... " :censored_
There ... mo' bettah', now, Bruddah ??? (just bustin' your chops, Hacker
)Even before the first hop, I thought the jig was up -- I thought it was all over -- I thought I wasn't gonna' make it !!! He scared the livin' shit outta all of us ... so, of course, guess who drew him ... ??? Fuck me ...
Stress ???? They want 'STRESS' ??? They want to instill STRESS into the program ??? Then we need to bring back the reality and time-tested 'art' of having SCREAMERs as Flight Instructors. Then these little pansies wouldn't complain about ... 'stand-ups', whatever that is ...
... stress, indeed. 
I'm sure the method works, and creates effective pilots. Since Navy folks have options on where to go, it's their prerogative to not want to go to Vance, and opt for Navy training.
Had I been given a choice instead of being told I was going to Corpus, I'd still opt for Navy training. I had just come out of 14 weeks of VERY specific routines of talking while standing at attention (chow hall procedures, inspections including oral quizzing with specific responses etc), so forgive me if I didn't want to have to rememeber to say simon says before responding to an EP question.
Now, mixing up words is one thing, but if I get asked an EP and respond with the correct verbology for the EP:
DO X, DO Y, DO Z, break out checklist for non-memory items, and it is all correct. Golden. And that has been my experience with the Navy way.
Even exact terminology is a bit subjective. "collective - reduce" instead of "collective - lower"? Such examples are found all throughout the PCL/NATOPS. If there's a glowing difference between the two, someone school me. In my mind, the NATOPS program managers didn't think enough to standardize language and wrote synonyms in a bunch of places, which makes the NATOPS Nazi IPs have a field day with studs when studs throw in an identical word (in definition) but it isn't the word in "NATOPS" .... bad grade.
This thread is rapidly becoming an 8 V 1 ... so why doesn't someone go sit down and take a pill ???
Otto -- you first.
Otto -- you first.
Stress ???? They want 'STRESS' ??? They want to instill STRESS into the program ??? Then we need to bring back the reality and time-tested 'art' of having SCREAMERs as Flight Instructors. Then these little pansies wouldn't complain about ... 'stand-ups', whatever that is ...
[/SIZE]
This, precisely.
Unfortunately, I don't know if anyone in our current-day pussified military could handle such a thing.
I assure you, screamers do still exist. And they suck as IPs, for the most part, or at least they did in my case. Learning CRM filtered thru a "fuck that guy, he's a dickhead" mentality works greeeeaaaaat...no?
See ... there's your problem today. You're afraid of someone being 'mean' to you. You're afraid to wet yourself & cry like a little girl .
I cried, I wet, I've been there -- and I still learned. If SCREAMERS were the 'norm' again ... if they were, say 50% ... if they were common, rather than the exception ... rather than just 'existing', as you say --- if they hadn't been emasculated and spayed and neutered over the last couple of decades ... then you'd have more competent Instructors who were SCREAMERS as well (law of averages) ... and you'd learn to deal w/ some modest level of "STRESS" before you get into NViet, Syrian, Libyan, Iranian, Chi-com, Rooskie, Serbian, NK, or what-have-you airspace ... and mebbe they *GASP* ... 'SCREAM' at you while they're trying to kill you ...
Or mebbe you just get a 'mean' lead flight attendant on the WHALE. Stress & flyin' .... crying ... learning ... wetting ... it's all still there ... different face; same-o, same-o ...