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"Tough" talk from Iran

if you insist on taking my comment as an offense, there is little that I can do. I just told you I did not mean it against the people of the middle east. You can argue with someone else if you like, though.

I do apologize for the initial statement, though. I didn't mean to offend anyone and I see how it did.
 
OUSOONER said:
The blockade..or "quarantine" of Cuba for example :)...That seemed to work out pretty good. Kruschev could have just said "lift the blockade or we fire".. These diplomatic steps need to be intact and abided by.
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There is a LOT more that went into the Cuban Missile Crisis than that... I suggest you do some more research. That was one of the few times that no-sh!t, we were almost at war with the Soviet Union.
 
Fly Navy said:
There is a LOT more that went into the Cuban Missile Crisis than that... I suggest you do some more research. That was one of the few times that no-sh!t, we were almost at war with the Soviet Union.
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my point was..in the end diplomacy (and cooler heads) prevailed...i was responding to..."when has any type of embargo or sanction worked"..i understand how close we got. but we didn't
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe embargos and sanctions are very different from a actual blockade, and send very different diplomatic messages. Blockades have a great track record. They are also tend to be a very hostile / open-war undertaking.

OUSOONER said:
These diplomatic steps need to be intact and abided by.
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I'm curious to hear your reasons why.
 
And just becuz I likes a pot at full roil...

Iran indicates it has no plans to halt enrichment

More of the same. More of the same.


What I'm really curious to see is how the Dear Leader, other Axis member does or does not follow through with the dismantle-ment of his nuclear program.

a) The North Koreans really DO turn over a new leaf, and unlike last time, we hold up our end of the dis-armament bargain instead of letting the issue get shuffled around to other tables at the switching Commander and Chiefs. OR

b) The North Koreans AGAIN successfully time their halt of program with the shifting of power in the US, and they will blow us off again and start the "negotion process" all over again.
 
OUSOONER said:
So you really think if/when Iran goes online with their nukes...they are going to attack Israel? Israel attacking some building in Syria "pre-emptively" is wayyyyy different with respect to Iran. The world would condemn Israel and blame them for the shitstorm that would result from said "pre-emptive" strike.

And according to your "sources" how close or not close do you think Iran is from developing a nuke? There still is a lot of table talk left on the table before anything like that would happen. What you have proposed is the last thing that the Middle East needs..it's already a hot enough over there. (literally :) )
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I think you're looking at the situation as you or as American politicians would look at it. But you can't put your values onto those of another country.

Israel doesn't care about the public outcry from launching preemptive strikes, as long as it preserves Israel. When you are surrounded by nation-states that openly preach your destruction and have come very close to doing just that, you try very hard to keep those enemy nations from acquiring nuclear weapons. Israel has done it in the past, and will continue to do it, public outcry be damned. The Israelis decided a long time ago not go quietly into the night. . .as they almost did sixty some odd years ago.

As for speculating on the extent of Iran's nuclear program, I think they already have them. I'm far more worried about China though.
 
AllAmerican75 said:
As for speculating on the extent of Iran's nuclear program, I think they already have them. I'm far more worried about China though.
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Pretty much every report released about Iran has shown that they discontinued their development of nuclear weapons a couple years ago. Even *if* they haven't, even the most pessimistic of reports states that they couldn't theoretically develop a full-blown weapon until several years down the road.

Also, what worries you about China? Aside from the fact that it is rapidly becoming one of the largest, most economically-prosperous (and even environmentally-hazardous) countries in the world?
 
m0tbaillie said:
Pretty much every report released about Iran has shown that they discontinued their development of nuclear weapons a couple years ago. Even *if* they haven't, even the most pessimistic of reports states that they couldn't theoretically develop a full-blown weapon until several years down the road.

Also, what worries you about China? Aside from the fact that it is rapidly becoming one of the largest, most economically-prosperous (and even environmentally-hazardous) countries in the world?
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Blatantly incorrect. See above.
 
m0tbaillie said:
Also, what worries you about China? Aside from the fact that it is rapidly becoming one of the largest, most economically-prosperous (and even environmentally-hazardous) countries in the world?
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Their growth rate is totally non-sustainable, and I don't even mean that in the environmental sense (although I half expect them to pollute themselves into cancerous oblivion). I expect there to be problems after the Olympics. Major economically-structural flaws will come to light. Bad shite will happen.

I don't fear the Chinese arsenal because I think they want to be a player in the same way we are. I fear that big of a military in the hands of a dictatorial ruling body with a collapsing economy and a male populace that will become increasingly without sexually-able females over this next generation is a recepie for a major headache.

That's my pion's version anyways...
 
eddie said:
Their growth rate is totally non-sustainable, and I don't even mean that in the environmental sense (although I half expect them to pollute themselves into cancerous oblivion). I expect there to be problems after the Olympics. Major economically-structural flaws will come to light. Bad shite will happen.

I don't fear the Chinese arsenal because I think they want to be a player in the same way we are. I fear that big of a military in the hands of a dictatorial ruling body with a collapsing economy and a male populace that will become increasingly without sexually-able females over this next generation is a recepie for a major headache.

That's my pion's version anyways...
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Eddie said it better than I could, +1.

I foresee China growing into another Soviet Union, and assuming it's position as a world superpower. And as it's economy collapses and its need for resources grows to sustain itself, I fear that the ChiComs will try to find their own "lebensraum." Best case is they invade Russia and the Russians' paranoid nightmares come true and they unleash all hell. Worst case is they go after Taiwan, Japan, etc. and we end up dragged into the fight. Either way, I think China's growth is going to trigger another Cold War, because again besides being a quasi-communist state they are also vastly different than we are culturally and therefore play the game differently.

My $0.02.
 
raptor10 said:
Blatantly incorrect. See above.
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Unfortunately, herein lies the problem.

http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/features/behind-irans-nuclear-weapons-halt
http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/03/iran.nuclear/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/world/middleeast/03cnd-iran.html
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/03/america/cia.php
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2007/12/04/us_finds_no_iran_bomb_program/

We could both probably literally find conflicting reports all day long and argue back and forth. The problem is that there is no clear evidence on either side, just a lot of guesswork and hearsay and rumors back and forth, back and forth. Do we really want to risk opening up another front on the GWOT when we're already stretched thin based on rumors and hearsay?
 
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