Well, I fold.
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New Intel O-1: Carrier "ships company" VS. "squadron"
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Well, I fold.
psrogers
Intel Officer
Having just spent two years as as ship's company 1630 on a carrier, and having lots of 1630 friends who are both squadron and ships's company 1630's, I will have to agree with all the statements above. In particular I'm seconding the comments that many first tour squadron AI's find the work, ahhh, less than satisfying. Furthermore, they are totally isolated from the rest of the 1630 community most of the time, aka any time they're not on deployment or workups. Actually, almost everyone who is a squadron AI that I know hates it. They get little respect from their squadrons because they don't understand ops and don't fly or directly contribute to flying on a daily basis. It is not atypical for me to hear from a fellow 1630 JO that their CO told them, such as during their FITREP debrief, that they don't make a difference in the squadron and shouldn't be there. Making matters worse, they are the most junior in rank and get stuck with all the crap duty and collatoral responsibilities such as security management. Furthermore, who want's to be the only O-1 in the squadron? All the other officers are LDO's or warrants (cool people and very knowledgeable but not off-duty peers), and the pilots are typically senior O-2's at a minimum who think intel officers shouldn't even be in squadrons. As an O-1 and as an O-2 now, I ritually avoid O-4 and above because the friendliest conversation suddenly becomes tasking, which is okay when you're working, but not all the time, such as when you just want to chill. On ships you have lots of O-1/O-2 peers who have the same set of work issues, particularly from CVIC, Supply, Weapons, Deck, Reactor, etc. On a ship, even the pilots on dissociated tours in Ops and Air Departments become way cooler to the intel guys because they are also out of their element and humbled by the ship's somewhat painful lifestyle and schedule.
On a ship, as the IS wrote above, you get the benefit of exposure to WAY more intelligence personnel: IS, CTT, CTR, CTM, OS, AW, etc, as well as junior and senior officers. You go to sea more, but who the hell joins Navy for any other reason? Okay, pilots join to fly, and I respect that, but I'm no pilot, and neither is a squadron AI. On a boat, the work is definitely harder but you learn a lot more and I found it rewarding, especially the DIVO and SUPPLOT aspects. I got to stand watch in combat as well as SUPPLOT, and I learned a ton of the sailor stuff that goes along with being on ships, including duty, inspections, maintenance, systems, manning, training, writing EVAL's, counseling, running quarters, etc. Some people don't want to do that stuff. For someone about being in the Navy long-run, or who just wants leadership training, that's rewarding experience. Squadron AI's typically lead no one or one or two IS's. Ship's company 1630's lead a division and a duty section every ten days or so, and maybe a repair locker or watch team. I think the ship's company route is way better because I loved it. I just wish I could have stood OOD and TAO. I wish intel weenies could get warfare qualified as a SWO. Also, the ship has a brazillion chiefs, LDO's and CWO's, and they're awesome. They teach you immeasurably. Squadrons have some but not remotely as many from whom to choose mentors.
I should add that squadron AI's get stationed in some isolate places like Lemoore or Whidbey Island. Some ships are in isolated spots, primarily in the northwest, but San Diego is money. Everyone in Norfolk/V.B., is good to go in terms of location.
Finally, by all accounts, SPECWAR is the most personally rewarding and enjoyable, but I have no personal experience with the community, although hopefully someday if I'm still around...
My thoughts.
On a ship, as the IS wrote above, you get the benefit of exposure to WAY more intelligence personnel: IS, CTT, CTR, CTM, OS, AW, etc, as well as junior and senior officers. You go to sea more, but who the hell joins Navy for any other reason? Okay, pilots join to fly, and I respect that, but I'm no pilot, and neither is a squadron AI. On a boat, the work is definitely harder but you learn a lot more and I found it rewarding, especially the DIVO and SUPPLOT aspects. I got to stand watch in combat as well as SUPPLOT, and I learned a ton of the sailor stuff that goes along with being on ships, including duty, inspections, maintenance, systems, manning, training, writing EVAL's, counseling, running quarters, etc. Some people don't want to do that stuff. For someone about being in the Navy long-run, or who just wants leadership training, that's rewarding experience. Squadron AI's typically lead no one or one or two IS's. Ship's company 1630's lead a division and a duty section every ten days or so, and maybe a repair locker or watch team. I think the ship's company route is way better because I loved it. I just wish I could have stood OOD and TAO. I wish intel weenies could get warfare qualified as a SWO. Also, the ship has a brazillion chiefs, LDO's and CWO's, and they're awesome. They teach you immeasurably. Squadrons have some but not remotely as many from whom to choose mentors.
I should add that squadron AI's get stationed in some isolate places like Lemoore or Whidbey Island. Some ships are in isolated spots, primarily in the northwest, but San Diego is money. Everyone in Norfolk/V.B., is good to go in terms of location.
Finally, by all accounts, SPECWAR is the most personally rewarding and enjoyable, but I have no personal experience with the community, although hopefully someday if I'm still around...
My thoughts.
Why should anybody but the squadron Intel O be stuck with security management?
I know you mean well, but your post just sounds like a whole lot of whining to me. Boo hoo hoo, I'm the junior guy and nobody likes me. :sleep_125
Brett
It's hit and miss. It's not an intel O only thing. Some squadrons are always better than others, just as some 1630s are better than others. The new guy or odd man out will always catch flak, regardless of their specialty. Those who make a legitimate effort to understand their unit's mission and how they can better provide what their squadron/unit needs will always be better received than those who don't. I've seen some that were useless oxygen consumers and one in particular who we wouldn't trade for a beer truck.
Well, unless it was a really big beer truck. We'd have missed him though.
Well, unless it was a really big beer truck. We'd have missed him though.
psrogers
Intel Officer
I don't care. I merely related my own observations and what I've heard from others, responding to the original subject of this thread.
I enjoyed my experience and have nothing to whine about.
Fair enough. I was referring (mostly) to your friend who went to a squadron. Maybe he was just a wet noodle - a prominent trait within your designator, yes?
Brett
psrogers
Intel Officer
Regrettably, it wasn't just one friend. It was most of them, leading me to believe that it's the job that leads them to complain and not just that all the individuals are wet noodles. Many of these people, in their former lives, were as "shit hot" as they come. Just like a cubicle monkey can completely reinvent himself into a shit hot jet pilot, so too can a college football athlete be reinvented into a security manager / collateral duty monkey when he becomes a squadron AI. This last statement is not a generalization about people in the Navy, just a fact.
Regarding the intel community consisting of a lot of wet noodles, I don't agree. Every community I've worked with has contained it's share of wet noodles, including the warfare qualified SWO and aviation communities.
There are good people in all the communities.
Regarding the intel community consisting of a lot of wet noodles, I don't agree. Every community I've worked with has contained it's share of wet noodles, including the warfare qualified SWO and aviation communities.
There are good people in all the communities.
If you want to be a SWO, then put in a lateral transfer request.
rbarnold2626
New Member
Let me start first by saying that no way in the world would I take SWO. I get out of the navy in 2002 as an FC2 and am now trying to come back in as an Intel Off. When I inquired about coming back in as an officer now that I had my degree, the recruiter quickly jumped on SWO and I basically laughed at him. I saw the kind of crap they had to put up with and I didn't want any part of that. Fortunately I work with a retired 1630 and he talked me in to that. I love all of the information you guys have been giving. Especially from those that seem to love being ship's company. Yeah, have fun with that. I'll take the squadron duty. Anyway, thanks for all fo the information. I think it has at least given me idea of what I am getting myself into. Just remember NO SWO!
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Brett is capable of love?
Somebody tell the wives, quick!
Somebody tell the wives, quick!
Better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.
Brett
WHOAH WHOAH!! For serious or for yanking the whipper-snappers' chains??