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Fun Low Level in a Hornet
- Thread starter MattWSU
- Start date
I remember some old crusty sim instructor here in Krock tell me that they used to put the bag up in the A-7 and TFR down to some crazy stupid low level before they did it at night. Because a bag is safer in a single pilot airplane than night...
Yeah, that bag was a great cushion when ya hit sumthin...
Aside from scary ass night strafe, I've never seen anyone hanging out down low in a Hornet on goggles. Some of the old crusty dudes may have done it but I figure, what's the point in ruining something as cool as low levels with something as crappy as flying on goggles?
Our NVG rules are the same (although as UMich points out, strafing does require going below 3K on goggles...I guess that's an exception). No night low levels though. Thank God.
What are these NVG's of which you speak? LOL
Intruder low levels at night were usually run at 700-800' AGL using SRTC (Search Radar Terrain Clearance) only. Our system was completely manual as well unlike the F-111. I flew some on dark ass nights on the IR-344. 2000' OVC, 2000' ridges on either side as we ran down the valley. That was fun.
Once we got NVG's, Intruders had a high alt (>3k') qual and a low level qual. Never got the low qual but the guys who did where going down to 500' AGL and doing the VR-1355 at night. Of course, our day limit was 200' AGL. I think the actual NVG low limit was 200' AGL with SRTC working, 500' without.
Pilot's ADI in TC mode. +/-23 wide FOV out to 8 miles. Don't ask me how I remember this stuff. Radalt tape on right (1000' AGL). Little round dot was velocity vector so looks like a climb is about to start.
BTW, roll and pull was fun for ridge crossing but avoid wing flash, a little chart study to find the best place to cross and start the climb a little early would lead to a nice ridge crossing with no ballooning or wing flash.
Intruder low levels at night were usually run at 700-800' AGL using SRTC (Search Radar Terrain Clearance) only. Our system was completely manual as well unlike the F-111. I flew some on dark ass nights on the IR-344. 2000' OVC, 2000' ridges on either side as we ran down the valley. That was fun.
Once we got NVG's, Intruders had a high alt (>3k') qual and a low level qual. Never got the low qual but the guys who did where going down to 500' AGL and doing the VR-1355 at night. Of course, our day limit was 200' AGL. I think the actual NVG low limit was 200' AGL with SRTC working, 500' without.
Pilot's ADI in TC mode. +/-23 wide FOV out to 8 miles. Don't ask me how I remember this stuff. Radalt tape on right (1000' AGL). Little round dot was velocity vector so looks like a climb is about to start.
BTW, roll and pull was fun for ridge crossing but avoid wing flash, a little chart study to find the best place to cross and start the climb a little early would lead to a nice ridge crossing with no ballooning or wing flash.
When we received the first A4D-2Ns (A-4Cs) in '62, one of the big upgrades was the APG-53A Radar which was supposed to give us "night/all weather capability" thus the -2N designation. Two radar modes: Search & Terrain Clearance.
1. In search mode, could barely pick up the CV from marshal, couldn't differentiate a CV from a DD.
2. Terrain Clearance mode was advertised to give safe 1000' 'all-terrain clearance' at night or IFR. After extensive testing/practice by A4D-2N fleet and RAG Squadrons in day/VFR conditions, the consensus was loud & unanimous... It would be foolish and UNSAFE to use the TC radar at low level in night/VFR conditions.
From then on, especially after the advent of "Rolling Thunder" ('64-'65ish), the VA/VAH major raison d'etre switched from SIOP to Conventional, and the APG-53A essentially became dead weight in the fleet. Regardless of what the "crusty ol' dudes" in the sims said... I think that had we tried to use the A-4 radar TC mode as designed, many of us dudes would never have become crusty, or OLD!
I am not sure if or how the Marine A-4C/E/M Squadrons employed their radar, and I've heard that most foreign A-4 operators had upgraded avionics (& engines) installed. I cannot recall ever even turning the radar on during the war or after, with the exception of a few radar fam hops as a RAG IP '68-'70.
BzB
Don't know if it's still done, but night ordnance delivery (bombs/rockets/strafe) under oscillating paraflares resulted in the most vertigo-inducing flight I ever experienced in training or combat. I believe it is responsible for many of our still unaccounted for MIAs, who simply disappeared at night over NVN.
BzB
Probably something along the lines of, "Why did my windscreen just get coated in oil and hydraulic fluids?"
From the training and readiness (T&R) manual WRT Marine Hornets and flying low level at night/on NVG's....
Night Systems (NS) -> "At the discretion of the commanding officer, aircrew complete and proficient with the NS-2400 stage may fly any night or night optional event in the T&R with the aid of NVDs. During HLL conditions (lux of 0.0022 or greater) aircrew are limited to a minimum altitude of 500‟ AGL for all night sorties. During LLL conditions, aircrew are limited to a minimum altitude of 1K‟ AGL. In any light level, no lower than local SOPs or T/M/S capabilities (e.g., non-NVG compatible FA-18s are restricted to 1K‟ AGL regardless of lux). "
NS2404 ... Introduce medium and low angle dive deliveries, and low angle pop attack deliveries utilizing NVDs. -> "Minimum ingress altitude shall be 500‟ AGL (>.0022 lux required) for pop attacks." ... this is flown by Cones straight out of the FRS.
NS Low Altitude Tactics (NSLAT) -> "At the discretion of the commanding officer, NS(Low) qualified aircrew may fly any night or night optional event in the T&R with the aid of NVDs. NS(Low) qualified aircrew may fly to a minimum altitude of 1K‟ AGL in LLL conditions (lux less than 0.0022) and down to 300‟ AGL in HLL conditions (lux greater than 0.0022). "
I've flown several "high threat" night CAS training sorties over my career in which I was down low on goggles.
S/F
Night Systems (NS) -> "At the discretion of the commanding officer, aircrew complete and proficient with the NS-2400 stage may fly any night or night optional event in the T&R with the aid of NVDs. During HLL conditions (lux of 0.0022 or greater) aircrew are limited to a minimum altitude of 500‟ AGL for all night sorties. During LLL conditions, aircrew are limited to a minimum altitude of 1K‟ AGL. In any light level, no lower than local SOPs or T/M/S capabilities (e.g., non-NVG compatible FA-18s are restricted to 1K‟ AGL regardless of lux). "
NS2404 ... Introduce medium and low angle dive deliveries, and low angle pop attack deliveries utilizing NVDs. -> "Minimum ingress altitude shall be 500‟ AGL (>.0022 lux required) for pop attacks." ... this is flown by Cones straight out of the FRS.
NS Low Altitude Tactics (NSLAT) -> "At the discretion of the commanding officer, NS(Low) qualified aircrew may fly any night or night optional event in the T&R with the aid of NVDs. NS(Low) qualified aircrew may fly to a minimum altitude of 1K‟ AGL in LLL conditions (lux less than 0.0022) and down to 300‟ AGL in HLL conditions (lux greater than 0.0022). "
I've flown several "high threat" night CAS training sorties over my career in which I was down low on goggles.
S/F
Sorry, Jarhead, this one is too good to pass up!
I wonder if KBay beat me to it before I click "post reply..."
But seriously, this is a good thread and I like learning about how other folks do business.
Edit: I bet these guys would get anthro'ed out by NOMI...
Quite exciting, this computer magic!
A long time ago, I saw a video from VA-115's Desert Storm cruise called "Eagles' Greatest Hits".
One segment was from a video camera mounted on the canopy bow between the pilot and B/N with the ICS tied into the audio. First night of DS, the Eagles went in low. This was before the Intruder community got NVG's.
So, they are going in low using SRTC. You can see SAMs being shot ballisticly and AAA everywhere. The audio goes like this:
RADALT: Deedle,Deedle.
Pilot: "Resetting, fifty (50) feet."
RADALT: Deedle,Deedle.
Pilot: "Pulling." (climbing)
RADALT: Deedle,Deedle.
Pilot: "Pulling." (climbing)
Good thing that the Kuwaiti/Iraqi desert is fairly flat. 50' at night, 420 knots.
One segment was from a video camera mounted on the canopy bow between the pilot and B/N with the ICS tied into the audio. First night of DS, the Eagles went in low. This was before the Intruder community got NVG's.
So, they are going in low using SRTC. You can see SAMs being shot ballisticly and AAA everywhere. The audio goes like this:
RADALT: Deedle,Deedle.
Pilot: "Resetting, fifty (50) feet."
RADALT: Deedle,Deedle.
Pilot: "Pulling." (climbing)
RADALT: Deedle,Deedle.
Pilot: "Pulling." (climbing)
Good thing that the Kuwaiti/Iraqi desert is fairly flat. 50' at night, 420 knots.