53s vs 60s

[hscs]

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/policy/fromsea/ffseanoc.html

Chunks - hate to break the news -- Blue water died along time ago, if it was ever alive. The above is Version 3 written in '97, with the original written in '92. And today, the fact of the matter is that we have a lot of people in the Navy that have more sand on their shoulders than salt. We have always sent Naval Aircraft feet dry -- and we will continue to do so.

And to echo rotorhead, the 60 can operate in Pakistan/
Afghanistan (many of us did in '01-'02), and the -60H is one of the most capable overland platforms in the US inventory. And we are only going to improve upon it with the -60S block 3.

 

[S.O.B.]

Que?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/CH-60_AMCM_Demo1.jpg

(not posted as image because it's big)

I don't think that's a real picture.

 

[ChunksJR]

And to echo rotorhead, the 60 can operate in Pakistan/
Afghanistan (many of us did in '01-'02), and the -60H is one of the most capable overland platforms in the US inventory. And we are only going to improve upon it with the -60S block 3.

I gots ya hscs...I was in Bahrain when we sent 2 of our 3 helos into Pakistan...awesome. "Hate to break the news..." but I also know of a loss of T/R effectiveness situation twice in the 3.5 weeks that we were in zone because of the 60S (with higher T/R authority than ANY other H-60 the Navy flys) after REDLINING the 60S's torque (144% Q) in a 6000' MSL LZ (wonder what the DA was???). We weren't trained to fly there...but sent there.

"Blue Water" is a concept. Many Naval Aviators are trained away from Blue Water. Many Naval Helo pilots are not. The latter is what I was refering to...not some global policy made at the Pentagon (50' above sea level).

I still don't feel you have any idea what you're talking about...what do you fly??? (besides a desk right now???) Not trying to be disrespectful...but talking about the Block 3 with the 60S...we're not going to see that employed until well into the next decade...that's what I was hearing when I left the squadron 4 months ago...have you heard different?

 

[hscs]

The H60 routinely lands at altitudes above 6000'. I have landed at 8000' in an HH and the folks at Fallon routinely land between 6-9k' in F/Hs when they instruct during Fallon's Mountain Flying School. I agree that the Navy did not set the HSC26 det up for sucess by not sending (at a bare minimum) the HACs to some sort of mountain flying school. They got thrown into it. But unfortunately, that is the world that we live in now, and everyone in the navy, including helicopters, needs to be ready to operate anywhere under 10k'.

Flying in the mountains is all about where you fly, proper power planning, and how you fly your approach. It isn't the aircraft -- it is how you fly it.

The Block 3 is due to HSC3 at the beginning of the FY. They already have guys from HSC3 at VX1 to start learning the systems and to help with testing. It looks like HSC25 will be the first to get the gear -- shortly after HSC3 is ready to begin training people. -25 should have the gear in FY08, along with the old HS8. The rest of the squadrons and the HS transitions will happen in a phased plan.

 

[ChunksJR]

I agree that the Navy did not set the HSC26 det up for sucess by not sending (at a bare minimum) the HACs to some sort of mountain flying school. They got thrown into it. But unfortunately, that is the world that we live in now, and everyone in the navy, including helicopters, needs to be ready to operate anywhere under 10k'.

Flying in the mountains is all about where you fly, proper power planning, and how you fly your approach. It isn't the aircraft -- it is how you fly it.

The Block 3 is due to HSC3 at the beginning of the FY. They already have guys from HSC3 at VX1 to start learning the systems and to help with testing. It looks like HSC25 will be the first to get the gear -- shortly after HSC3 is ready to begin training people. -25 should have the gear in FY08, along with the old HS8. The rest of the squadrons and the HS transitions will happen in a phased plan.

Preachin' to the choir here...I'm in complete agreement...but the typical reactionary Navy has not, to my knowledge, allotted funds to ANY HSC squadron to attend a Mountain Flying School. We looked into it when I was working the Tactics office there in Norfolk and we were firmly and quickly denied. We just recieved funding for LVL V NSW IPs.

As for the Block 3...NAVAIR has approved it the airframe changes??? Last thing I heard was it was pushed back because of the formerly alloted parts at Sikorsky were going to other services...along with the plethora of problems found with the Block 1/2 mods...from cracks in the airframe to CG issues with the Aux tanks...again, I could be wrong.

Either way...hscs...I guess you're probably working the wing or @ -4 or -5. Keep me updated with the "real" navy...I'll enjoy my orange & white bubble down here.

 

[hscs]

The mountain flying thing is a tough nut to crack for the non-airwing associated squadrons. The air wing squadrons can go during the initial part of airwing Fallon. However, the best place to go for mountain flying is the canadian school ( they teach the guys at Fallon). I have heard it to be humbling, as you have to remember how to fly a -57B again.

 

[S.O.B.]

60 Sierra = No Gas
60 Romeo = No VOR = No ILS = PAR/TACAN (Very few left in the U.S.)

Discuss

 

[squorch2]

60 Sierra = No Gas
60 Romeo = No VOR = No ILS = PAR/TACAN (Very few left in the U.S.)

Discuss

Just throw in an internal aux tank... get 50% more gas. Throw on a couple of external aux tanks and you can stay aloft for a longass time...

The 60R *still* doesn't have VOR?

 

[ChuckMK23]

Gps?

 

[MasterBates]

Non-Nav capable in the 60B, at least for "normal" GPS approaches. Not sure about the 60R.

 

[S.O.B.]

Just throw in an internal aux tank... get 50% more gas. Throw on a couple of external aux tanks and you can stay aloft for a longass time...

The 60R *still* doesn't have VOR?

Yea, but you'll have to wait for a cold spell to fly.

 

[ChunksJR]

Throw on a couple of external aux tanks and you can stay aloft for a longass time...

But you NEED 2 crewmen then because of CG issues...AND you go from 7 pax to 4.

 

[HH-60H]

Gps?

Yes, the 60H (cockpit in picture) and the 60F both have GPS, but they are not IFR certified, same as the 60B. I haven't heard about the R and S.

 

[ChunksJR]

Yes, the 60H (cockpit in picture) and the 60F both have GPS, but they are not IFR certified, same as the 60B. I haven't heard about the R and S.

Negative...Neither have RAIM capability...like the TH-57C ...which I believe is the only Naval Aircraft certified for use in IFR.

~D

 

[ChunksJR]

I have heard it to be humbling, as you have to remember how to fly a -57B again.

VERY humbling...scared the crap out of the PC at Whiting...as well as myself.

Flying with "Possum"...heard his stories about flying the TH-57B to the oil rigs and back everyday...

~D