Woman + Subs

[Bevo16]

You can't apply a "cure all" to something like this.

No kidding. That's why we are talking about it on the internet. You mean that this is not actual policy creation? Dammit.

And I don't know what you're experiences are but they are certainly not the norm. I personally have never seen a woman get pregnant on purpose (or by accident) to avoid a deployment. As a matter of fact, all the women I know that have gotten pregnant planned it around deployments and continued to work basically until they went into labor.... my wife included. She flew through the first 6 months with both our kids and then was required to stop. The last three months she still went to work everyday to do her ground job, stand duty, whatever. And she was back to work as soon as the 6 weeks convalescent leave was over.

You and phrogpilot both have wives that are doing it right. Congratulations. Now consider the possibility that junior enlisted sailors are not nearly as responsible in their personal lives (including when they choose to reproduce) as the officers you are married to (USMC officers at that) and aviators in general.

A woman gets pregnant on purpose/accidentally and a man seriously injures himself off duty because he was being stupid..... either way, it was irresponsible and the command is out one person and needs to find a replacement. But which one is "worse"?

The woman who got pregnant. Obviously. If there was a pill or 2 mintue medical procedure that could completely prevent men from tearing their ACL while playing flag football or getting a sunburn, then those issues would never happen. Poor analogy.

In this particular case, the way you present yourself is irresponsible and unprofessional. Given the chance, would you REALLY stand in front of the CNO or SECDEF and suggest we temporarily sterilize ALL females entering the armed services? I seriously doubt it.

Irresponsible and unprofessional? Locate a ladder and get off your high horse shipmate. Grab a dictionary on the way down because "temporarily" and "sterilize" don't go together. Sure it sounds salacious, and that was your point, but there is nothing unprofessional about expecting members of the military to actually do the jobs they sign up for.

You might get all weak in the knees around admirals or high level civilian leadership and be scared to express an out of the box opinion, but I don't. I deal with Senators, Governors, SECNAV Staff, and the White House on a routine basis. Half of the time, I am telling them to pound sand. Good thing you don't have my job.

EVERYONE gets a flu shot. Suggesting that all women get a mandatory procedure to sterilize them is discrimination..... unless you're also suggesting that all men get a similar procedure.

...."sterilize"....such a scary word you used it twice.

We are talking a readiness issue, not a parenthood issue. Men can and do become parents without missing a day of work every day. That's the elephant in the room that your argument failed to notice.

Cheers

 

[rondebmar]

Contents of my inbox this AM might indicate there's no further room for debate:

http://www.military.com/news/articl...e-sailors.html?col=1186032325324&ESRC=navy.nl

 

[scoolbubba]

Maybe instead of blue and gold crews, they could just have pink and blue crews. Everyone wins, and no babies to boot!


This is a terrible idea. I'm going back to my hole.

 

[jfulginiti]

Irresponsible and unprofessional? Locate a ladder and get off your high horse shipmate. Grab a dictionary on the way down because "temporarily" and "sterilize" don't go together. Sure it sounds salacious, and that was your point, but there is nothing unprofessional about expecting members of the military to actually do the jobs they sign up for.

...."sterilize"....such a scary word you used it twice.

We are talking a readiness issue, not a parenthood issue. Men can and do become parents without missing a day of work every day. That's the elephant in the room that your argument failed to notice.

"Sterilize"... okay I admit not the best word but I couldn't think of a better one to describe what you're suggesting. Regardless, I still think the idea is ridiculous on many levels. I agree that young enlisted women getting pregnant prior to or during deployment affects manning and readiness.... I'm not arguing that point at all. But to say that ALL females, enlisted and officers, should get a mandatory IUD/contraceptive is..... I don't know, just not right. We're obviously never going to agree on this.

 

[Brett327]

I'm a woman and while I'd rather hang by my toes than have to serve on a sub, more power to the women who are qualified and want to be bubble heads.

A few submariners are friends of the family and if their personalities are indicative of the types of men in that service, I can honestly say that when the word comes down to integrate, they'll come up with a rock-solid plan, execute it flawlessly, and do it without a word of bitching. They thrive on bat-shit crazy challenges.

You gave a reason why YOU wouldn't want to serve on a sub, but your first post said that you didn't think WOMEN should. Please clarify.

Brett

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

You gave a reason why YOU wouldn't want to serve on a sub, but your first post said that you didn't think WOMEN should. Please clarify.

Brett

I think you are mistaking this user for another user Brett. Unless they are using two different names.

 

[Alecta]

You gave a reason why YOU wouldn't want to serve on a sub, but your first post said that you didn't think WOMEN should. Please clarify.

Brett

Miya88 said women shouldn't be on subs, not me.

Anyway, of course men can go to work and be parents at the same time; you can have children littered all over planet Earth and not even know you have one. Kinda hard for a woman to do, with a little human being hijacking your body for 9 months so it can grow, and all. However, pregnancy is not the real problem here and forcing women to take contraception doesn't really address the real issue here- people having sex when they're not supposed to.

 

[Brett327]

Miya88 said women shouldn't be on subs, not me.

Anyway, of course men can go to work and be parents at the same time; you can have children littered all over planet Earth and not even know you have one. Kinda hard for a woman to do, with a little human being hijacking your body for 9 months so it can grow, and all. However, pregnancy is not the real problem here and forcing women to take contraception doesn't really address the real issue here- people having sex when they're not supposed to.

Mi malo.

Brett

 

[SkywardET]

However, pregnancy is not the real problem here and forcing women to take contraception doesn't really address the real issue here- people having sex when they're not supposed to.

That didn't seem to be a problem in Starship Troopers. :icon_smil

 

[Spekkio]

However, pregnancy is not the real problem here and forcing women to take contraception doesn't really address the real issue here- people having sex when they're not supposed to.

Women can and do become impregnated by their husbands while on liberty. That's not having sex when they're not supposed to.

 

[Mos]

Women can and do become impregnated by their husbands while on liberty. That's not having sex when they're not supposed to.

She's probably thinking more about unmarried people having sex on the boat, or similar situations.

 

[niktam]

Maybe they should train up a few hundred female submariners, and give them their own boats. It'd solve the space problem (and create only a few logistical nightmares).

They tried that, it never got out of port. Now for all of those of you posting that have never been onboard a surface ship, i got some news for you, its called a fan room, or a battery locker, guess what happens behind closed doors? yes, now add the fact that 1/2 of the crew is female. problems?

Onboard a surface boat, the ugliest chick in highschool who had no social skills is transformed into a prom queen with literally 5-6 guys attending her at all times, as if head cheerleader. Now do it on a sub...problems much?

If woman wanna be treated equally perform equally, I'm not going to echo some of the earlier statements regarding equal in combat ships or attack aircraft because that just reeks of tailhook mentality, I am saying that of course all the geek nuke kids on subs want a geek girl on subs, that way they can make geek babies.

Can you clarify how it is that you know the intentions of these females? And even if this is what they're thinking, how is this anecdotal "evidence" any better than phrogpilot73's about his wife? Not saying your experiences don't matter in debates like this, but I always understood that the best evidence usually comes from studies that benefit from the law of large numbers, such as a formal survey.

Seriously? you need proof? talk to an enlisted or commissioned sailor as they are pointing out in this thread currently, and start a poll and ask them how many female sailors that purposely wait till the end of there shore rotation to get pregnant to delay sea duty, or purposely wait till prior to deployment to get pregnant? Yes I have a friend who got prego while deployed, and her husband was deployed on another ship and they had liberty in the same port, but that is far from the norm.

Its cute you wanna do long polls, but this just in the Navy has been around since 1775, and woman have been in for quite some while now, and its been proven time and time again that these things are done intentionally or not, but it happens. Sorry no college phd student has felt the need to invest the time to make it a study, maybe you should waste the money to prove what everyone on these boards already know?

 

[QuagmireMcGuire]

Miya88 said women shouldn't be on subs, not me.

Anyway, of course men can go to work and be parents at the same time; you can have children littered all over planet Earth and not even know you have one. Kinda hard for a woman to do, with a little human being hijacking your body for 9 months so it can grow, and all. However, pregnancy is not the real problem here and forcing women to take contraception doesn't really address the real issue here- people having sex when they're not supposed to.

So, you don't think women should serve on subs because they could trip and land on a dick?

 

[niktam]

could is misleading, WILL is the accurate answer.

 

[Alecta]

Truthfully, I could careless if women are on subs. If they're crazy enough to want to float round in a metal tube and enjoy not seeing the light for months on end, then they can rock on with their bad selves.

What I find interesting about the whole debate is the logic behind these arguments. Some women behave like total shit bags, and therefore no woman can serve on subs. What if you applied that same train of thought and extrapolated it out a bit. You wouldn't ban every Hispanic from working in jobs that deal with money because a few assholes steal, would you? Some people perceive that more men are pedophiles, would you ban every man from a career that deals with children under the age of 18? Then why are we talking about keeping perfectly qualified people, who happen to be women, from serving in subs because some people who are huge douchenozzles and don't behave responsibily, and happen to be women?