What to fly... Advice?

[thebluto]

Okay, Gents. I'm sorry if I came across as being some embittered former VQ guy. That wasn't my intent. There were a lot of good things about being in VQ. I met a lot of life-long friends and I did get to fly alot.

My intent here was to point out the "suck" factor that can be present in the VP/VQ-world. I have seen a lot of Ensigns leave the T-34, pressing on to what they think is some utopia in P-3 world, as their on-wings and other IPs have painted this rosy picture of living onshore, going to exotic locations and some grand life that isn't like the "horrors" of going to a carrier.

Having seen both sides of that coin, I just want to say that going to the boat really wasn't that bad. I had an awesome time in carrier aviation and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything in the world. If I were looking at a future between CV-world and P-3 world, I would pick CV-world.

The problem is when a student is in primary, the only people that are available for career advice are P-3 and helo guys, and they get no access to E-2, F-18, EA-6B, S-3, C-2, etc. IPs because they are all in Kingsville and Meridian (for the most part). So, they get an uninformed opinion of what life on a ship is like.

I also don't hear a lot of P-3 guys tell the downside. That is what I was trying to present. The student that started the thread asked me for the pitfalls, and that's what I gave him (or her).

And, yes every community has staff weenies. But, the P-3 world seems to have more than it's fair share. It's just that I have personally witnessed more jet guys that weren't screened for command wearing flight suits and hopping in T-45s in their later years than P-3 guys flying T-34s and T-44s. there is just not enough room to accomodate them.

The bottom line is there are two sides to every story, and I just wanted to show the down-side to this one, so junior can make an educated decision about his future. Thanks.

 

[A4sForever]

....embittered former VQ guy....the "suck" factor that can be present in the VP/VQ-world... isn't like the "horrors" of going to a carrier....just want to say that going to the boat really wasn't that bad. .... The problem is when a student is in primary...they get no access to E-2, F-18, EA-6B, S-3, C-2, etc. .... staff weenies.... the P-3 world seems to have more than it's fair share.

Just for the sake of discussion ... it's funny (strange) hearing you fellows color the P-3 "world" in these shades ... as it -- the VP side of the house -- never had any noticeable "downside" when I was in the Service ... "different" and slower, yes ... but certainly not a "downside" .... I originally thought about going VP after riding a P-3 cockpit cross-country as a Midshipman. No "downside" ... just "different".

And VQ??? VQ-1 and VQ-2 were certainly seen as "equals" by the AirWing. Their crews were admired for their skills and expertise while the A-3 was alive and well .... does that (a desire for something akin to the former A-3 component) and a declining fleet of P-3 aircraft have something to do with the "angst" and possibly "defensiveness" I detect in some of the VP/VQ posts and attitudes these days???

Since I'm not "in" ... I just listen, read, and conclude. No judgements; that's long since past .... hopefully, I am making sense ... if not, delete and ban me.

 

[HooverPilot]

They also said that of the last 6 carriers in the Mediterainian/gulf, not one jet dropped a bomb. (This really surprised me, maybe some one can chime in on this if I'm mistaken.)

You are mistaken.

 

[zippy]

Here's some of the main points I recently learned about from an unclassified breif given by the P3 rag guys:

Keep in mind the source of that info and what the purpose of their visit was... they aren't going to go around doing anything but painting a positive picture of the community. A lot of what they focus on in 30 is the future outlook of the community while Bluto's post has hit the highlights of the major things you, presently, will have to deal with in your time in P-3s. Like it or not, that is the reality.

 

[Rg9]

The problem is when a student is in primary, the only people that are available for career advice are P-3 and helo guys... and that's what I gave him (or her)...

I wish we had more CV IP's to get info from in Primary. I guess it's not a very career enhancing job, and the numbers just work out the way they do. It's unfortunate, though. I guess they figure those who want tailhook will want it regardless, although I can attest that there are a good number of studs with 50+ NSS's who aren't sure about it (and lack of the IP resources is part of it). By the way, they're "projecting" me (it's never right) in the low 60's, so tailhook's still on the table.

Also, I am a "him." And thank you very much for the info. You are right that we get mostly one side of the picture here.

To VP/VQ pilots here: do you ever wish you would have gone tailhook? Not that you hate P-3's or anything, but if you could do it again and had a choice, would you have chosen tailhook (I say "tailhook" since they're combining all the selectees until advanced, if you didn't know)?

 

[kmac]

I wish we had more CV IP's to get info from in Primary. I guess it's not a very career enhancing job, and the numbers just work out the way they do.

I haven't heard of any detractor if you're looking to continue a career in the Navy by going VT (primary). It's more the numbers game than anything. This of course is based on what was told to me... no firsthand knowledge. If you think about it though, the tailhook spots in advanced have to be taken by guys with tailhook experience (with some exceptions here and there). That means that those spots need to be filled before primary spots are open. Likewise, you won't find jet guys in advanced helicopters. Given the numbers though, like you mentioned, you're much more likely to have excess helicopter and P-3 guys than excess jet guys who want to instruct, especially in primary land.

I was offered Kingsville or Meridian off the bat (by the detailer), and I asked for Corpus. Was then asked if I had any inkling to go to Meridian, and I again asked for Corpus. With some help (I'm sure) from the front office, I was able to get Corpus primary... exactly what I wanted. Now I just have to be "that guy" and buy the Carrier Aviation patch sold by the Tailhook Association.

 

[insanebikerboy]

To VP/VQ pilots here: do you ever wish you would have gone tailhook? Not that you hate P-3's or anything, but if you could do it again and had a choice, would you have chosen tailhook (I say "tailhook" since they're combining all the selectees until advanced, if you didn't know)?

I thought the tailhook selection had been tabled till later this fall due to a TIMS issue?

 

[Rg9]

I thought the tailhook selection had been tabled till later this fall due to a TIMS issue?

Uh... hmm... I'll let you know. The selection sheet just showed up in my training folder, waiting for me to write what I want. I was pretty sure it said "Tacair" (i.e., tailhook) as an option, but I didn't look too close. I'll report back.

...a TIMS issue...

Using the singular "a" doesn't do TIMS justice. It has plenty more problems, and no problem can be a result of one singular issue. TIMS would not allow that.

 

[Flash]

Also, I am a "him." And thank you very much for the info. You are right that we get mostly one side of the picture here.

To VP/VQ pilots here: do you ever wish you would have gone tailhook? Not that you hate P-3's or anything, but if you could do it again and had a choice, would you have chosen tailhook (I say "tailhook" since they're combining all the selectees until advanced, if you didn't know)?

Uhhh, okay. Good to know.

I was not a pilot but I did wish and I transitioned......so you can have it both ways....... But again, I did not regret my choosing VQ in the first place.

 

[thebluto]

I wasn't able to get jets out of primary. It's kind of a long story. Involved NFO-to-pilot transition being cancelled due to a crash of an F-14 NFO-to-pilot in Nashville, TN in 1996. The CNO cancelled the NFO-to-pilot program, and those of us who were in the training pipeline were told either to go back to being an NFO or fly something multi-piloted, but no jets.

Anyway, if I had to do it all over again, I would have tried for E-2s, which were available, instead of EP-3s. But, that's just me.

I am happy flying T-34s in Corpus, however. And, I've been doing that for 6 1/2 years now. I only get to do it part time now, but that beats not flying at all.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Uh... hmm... I'll let you know. The selection sheet just showed up in my training folder, waiting for me to write what I want. I was pretty sure it said "Tacair" (i.e., tailhook) as an option, but I didn't look too close. I'll report back.

Using the singular "a" doesn't do TIMS justice. It has plenty more problems, and no problem can be a result of one singular issue. TIMS would not allow that.

Yeah, Tacair isn't "tailhook", but what I hear is secondhand since I'm not in primary anymore.

And yeah, TIMS has become self-aware and only allows what it wants to happen.

 

[A4sForever]

I wasn't able to get jets out of primary. It's kind of a long story. Involved NFO-to-pilot transition being cancelled due to a crash of an F-14 NFO-to-pilot in Nashville, TN in 1996. The CNO cancelled the NFO-to-pilot program, and those of us who were in the training pipeline were told either to go back to being an NFO or fly something multi-piloted, but no jets.....

Yeah, I remember that particular fiasco. Another bureaucratic profile in courage.

The solution: you throw all the babies out with all the bath water .... a textbook, zero-sum, zero-tolerance, zero-headwork solution .... one so typical for the bean-counters to comprehend and for those in uniform who make a career out of looking over their shoulder to see who is "gaining" on them to implement ....

We had mixed results with our NFO-cum-Aviators. Some of the "born-agains" were great -- and some were not-so-great, as you might expect. Again, an expected result from a predictable cross section of guys. What a surprise, yes??

I remember the top guy out of @ 40 in one jet advanced graduating class being a former RIO. He got his Aviator Wings and was dead 10 months later. Another very average guy was a former B/N and he became an average A-6 driver. He just retired from a long and successful career as an average Naval Aviator (then) and an average airline pilot (now) ....

What a surprise.

 

[phrogpilot73]

He just retired from a long and successful career as an average Naval Aviator (then) and an average airline pilot (now) ....

Why so hard on yourself?? I would hardly call you "average"

 

[A4sForever]

Why so hard on yourself?? I would hardly call you "average"

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

Yeah .... I wish I'd just stayed "average" B/N.

I weep .... for the future, etc., etc. .....

 

[Gatordev]

Using the singular "a" doesn't do TIMS justice. It has plenty more problems, and no problem can be a result of one singular issue. TIMS would not allow that.

I don't know your location and whether you're NSE or Corpus (too lazy to look up your IP), but I don't know where all the bad feelings come from on TIMS. It's so much easier to use for an IP day to day and it allows the student to see so much more of his gradebook, easier. It does have some hangups at times, but I just don't get the griping.

Not directed at you, Rg9, specifically, just an observation.