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War in Israel

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JTS11 said:
Oh, I was being sarcastic. Nice job Trump-splaining his ridiculous comments on the situation though.

Here's the basis of his comments. It's all transactional. No real principles involved.

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Something tells me, and I’m going out on a limb here by saying this….I don’t think you like Trump very much.

Trump’s comments are tone deaf and from a political leader’s perspective, right now is the time to support Israel, and not say anything that could be construed as support for terrorisim (there’s enough crazy people out there doing that explicitly).

But at the same time, a tweet from a third party outlet with an obvious left-wing bias, or a politician with a vested interest in trying to look better than him are pretty poor markers to use for criticism, as they are both incentivized to make him look as bad as possible.

Trump’s comments in that clip can stand by themselves, and it’s very easy to critique and find fault with them, before adding any sort of additional spin.
 
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FLGUY said:
Something tells me, and I’m going out on a limb here by saying this….I don’t think you like Trump very much.

Trump’s comments are tone deaf and from a political leader’s perspective, right now is the time to support Israel, and not say anything that could be construed as support for terrorisim (there’s enough crazy people out there doing that explicitly).

But at the same time, a tweet from a third party outlet with an obvious left-wing bias, or a politician with a vested interest in trying to look better than him are pretty poor markers to use for criticism, as they are both incentivized to make him look as bad as possible.

Trump’s comments in that clip can stand by themselves, and it’s very easy to critique and find fault with them, before adding any sort of additional spin.
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The post was to display his actual comments. I don't really care about the tweet and it's characterizations.

But, yes his comments do stand by itself. So, I agree with you there.
 
Hypothesis: Hamas' goal is to be like The Joker. They just want to watch it all burn, the bigger the war, the better. To turn it all into the wild, wild, west ala Iraq and ISIS. Take advantage of the devolution. I struggle to make sense of their actions otherwise.

sevenhelmet said:
or Harvard University
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Yeah, WTF?

Living in the bubble.
 
taxi1 said:
Hypothesis: Hamas' goal is to be like The Joker. They just want to watch it all burn, the bigger the war, the better. To turn it all into the wild, wild, west ala Iraq and ISIS. Take advantage of the devolution. I struggle to make sense of their actions otherwise.


Yeah, WTF?

Living in the bubble.
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I think you're correct. The shot callers don't reside in Gaza. Arafat died a billionaire. How'd that happen? It's sad.
 
taxi1 said:
Hypothesis: Hamas' goal is to be like The Joker. They just want to watch it all burn, the bigger the war, the better. To turn it all into the wild, wild, west ala Iraq and ISIS. Take advantage of the devolution. I struggle to make sense of their actions otherwise.


Yeah, WTF?

Living in the bubble.
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The Atlantic article above, outlines their motives pretty succintly. Also highlights the futility of negotiating with terrorists- a lesson we have to keep relearning every time some politician gets a bright idea to try something "new".

Any negotiation tactic on the part of Hamas (or ISIS, or Taliban, etc.) is simply a means of buying time for them to plan their next barbarous and sadistic attack on civilization. Mark my words, Hamas will attempt to come to the table, and I hope Israel refuses them, simply based on their explicitly-stated charter.

taxi1 said:
Yeah, WTF?

Living in the bubble.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The weakness of wokeness is that it's used as compensation for personal insecurities. Makes it much harder to take a strong, civilized stance when things like this happen.
 
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How do folks feel about the way that Israel has handled the Palestinians more generally for the last few decades? There's no excuse for Hamas' actions (and their beliefs regarding genocide against Jews generally), but if we are going to support Israel with more than just words, as we obviously are currently and have since their founding, should we not put strings on that aid, such as a requirement to end the current regime of apartheid? There are no good solutions to this problem, but it seems the recently attempted ones aren't working, and I'm doubtful a heavier boot will fix things. But I'm no expert on these issues.
 
Mirage said:
How do folks feel about the way that Israel has handled the Palestinians more generally for the last few decades? There's no excuse for Hamas' actions (and their beliefs regarding genocide against Jews generally), but if we are going to support Israel with more than just words, as we obviously are currently and have since their founding, should we not put strings on that aid, such as a requirement to end the current regime of apartheid? There are no good solutions to this problem, but it seems the recently attempted ones aren't working, and I'm doubtful a heavier boot will fix things. But I'm no expert on these issues.
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*cracks a beer and dons MOPP 4*

I'll be watching over here...1697128443844.png
 
Mirage said:
There are no good solutions to this problem
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Then I'll support the thriving open democracy over the closed theocracy, as at least it has the ability to introspect.

But...there are no good solutions here, I agree. Especially when Hamas pledges to destroy Israel and the Jews, and embeds themselves in the civilian population.

Demographics is destiny, and both the Israeli Arab population and the Haredis are out-pacing the more liberal Israelis. Neither want Israel to stay as it is. Nothing but train wreck on the horizon.
 
Mirage said:
How do folks feel about the way that Israel has handled the Palestinians more generally for the last few decades? There's no excuse for Hamas' actions (and their beliefs regarding genocide against Jews generally), but if we are going to support Israel with more than just words, as we obviously are currently and have since their founding, should we not put strings on that aid, such as a requirement to end the current regime of apartheid? There are no good solutions to this problem, but it seems the recently attempted ones aren't working, and I'm doubtful a heavier boot will fix things. But I'm no expert on these issues.
Click to expand...

I'm far from being an expert either, but the biggest mistake I think Israel made was in permitting Hamas to take over Gaza and (porously) walling themselves off from a totalitarian sharia state while creating an intelligence blind spot for themselves. You don't give this enemy time to prepare- they aren't going to back off their genocidal intentions simply because they were "left alone". Israel was warned about this, and for whatever reasons- likely politics- they chose not to heed.

None of that excuses in any way the barbaric acts of Hamas, nor the destabilizing force behind them, Iran. I don't buy the "humanitarian purposes only" line of BS regarding the $6B in unfrozen assets either. If you gave me money to pay the utilities, I'd have more money to spend on guns and ammo. You didn't give me money for gun stuff, but I wound up with more all the same. Iran needs to be sanctioned, frozen, and cut off to stop its bad behavior.

Unfortunately, I see all of this as just another turn of the wheel- Israel will respond righteously, and justifiably so. Until, they go too far in the eyes of the world, and get pressured into coming to the table to discuss options. I'm no fan of genocide, but if we're being intellectually honest, we know Hamas will use that for blackmail, drumming up sympathy with the appeasers, and rebuilding themselves to do this again in the next 10-20 years, with Iran's help.

How do we break that cycle? I have no answer.
 
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