War in Israel

[FLGUY]

Oh, I was being sarcastic. Nice job Trump-splaining his ridiculous comments on the situation though.

Here's the basis of his comments. It's all transactional. No real principles involved.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/09/23/benjamin-netanyahu-donald-trump-collins-src-vpx.cnn

Something tells me, and I’m going out on a limb here by saying this….I don’t think you like Trump very much.

Trump’s comments are tone deaf and from a political leader’s perspective, right now is the time to support Israel, and not say anything that could be construed as support for terrorisim (there’s enough crazy people out there doing that explicitly).

But at the same time, a tweet from a third party outlet with an obvious left-wing bias, or a politician with a vested interest in trying to look better than him are pretty poor markers to use for criticism, as they are both incentivized to make him look as bad as possible.

Trump’s comments in that clip can stand by themselves, and it’s very easy to critique and find fault with them, before adding any sort of additional spin.

 

[taxi1]

He said Hezbollah are smart. And...? He isn't praising them.

So who doesn't like being called smart?

 

[JTS11]

Something tells me, and I’m going out on a limb here by saying this….I don’t think you like Trump very much.

Trump’s comments are tone deaf and from a political leader’s perspective, right now is the time to support Israel, and not say anything that could be construed as support for terrorisim (there’s enough crazy people out there doing that explicitly).

But at the same time, a tweet from a third party outlet with an obvious left-wing bias, or a politician with a vested interest in trying to look better than him are pretty poor markers to use for criticism, as they are both incentivized to make him look as bad as possible.

Trump’s comments in that clip can stand by themselves, and it’s very easy to critique and find fault with them, before adding any sort of additional spin.

The post was to display his actual comments. I don't really care about the tweet and it's characterizations.

But, yes his comments do stand by itself. So, I agree with you there.

 

[JTS11]

So who doesn't like being called smart?

Fredo agrees!

 

[sevenhelmet]

Equivocating in the face of barbarism is inexcusable. Whether it's Trump, or Harvard University, there's only one right answer in terms of messaging here, and they chose poorly.

 

[taxi1]

Hypothesis: Hamas' goal is to be like The Joker. They just want to watch it all burn, the bigger the war, the better. To turn it all into the wild, wild, west ala Iraq and ISIS. Take advantage of the devolution. I struggle to make sense of their actions otherwise.

or Harvard University

Yeah, WTF?

Living in the bubble.

 

[JTS11]

Hypothesis: Hamas' goal is to be like The Joker. They just want to watch it all burn, the bigger the war, the better. To turn it all into the wild, wild, west ala Iraq and ISIS. Take advantage of the devolution. I struggle to make sense of their actions otherwise.


Yeah, WTF?

Living in the bubble.

I think you're correct. The shot callers don't reside in Gaza. Arafat died a billionaire. How'd that happen? It's sad.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Hypothesis: Hamas' goal is to be like The Joker. They just want to watch it all burn, the bigger the war, the better. To turn it all into the wild, wild, west ala Iraq and ISIS. Take advantage of the devolution. I struggle to make sense of their actions otherwise.


Yeah, WTF?

Living in the bubble.

The Atlantic article above, outlines their motives pretty succintly. Also highlights the futility of negotiating with terrorists- a lesson we have to keep relearning every time some politician gets a bright idea to try something "new".

Any negotiation tactic on the part of Hamas (or ISIS, or Taliban, etc.) is simply a means of buying time for them to plan their next barbarous and sadistic attack on civilization. Mark my words, Hamas will attempt to come to the table, and I hope Israel refuses them, simply based on their explicitly-stated charter.

Yeah, WTF?

Living in the bubble.

Agreed. The weakness of wokeness is that it's used as compensation for personal insecurities. Makes it much harder to take a strong, civilized stance when things like this happen.

 

[Fallonflyr]

Those Harvard kids parents must be so proud…education money well spent.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Those Harvard kids parents must be so proud…education money well spent.

Harvard Mouth or First Day at Harvard.

 

[Mirage]

How do folks feel about the way that Israel has handled the Palestinians more generally for the last few decades? There's no excuse for Hamas' actions (and their beliefs regarding genocide against Jews generally), but if we are going to support Israel with more than just words, as we obviously are currently and have since their founding, should we not put strings on that aid, such as a requirement to end the current regime of apartheid? There are no good solutions to this problem, but it seems the recently attempted ones aren't working, and I'm doubtful a heavier boot will fix things. But I'm no expert on these issues.

 

[Average Monke]

How do folks feel about the way that Israel has handled the Palestinians more generally for the last few decades? There's no excuse for Hamas' actions (and their beliefs regarding genocide against Jews generally), but if we are going to support Israel with more than just words, as we obviously are currently and have since their founding, should we not put strings on that aid, such as a requirement to end the current regime of apartheid? There are no good solutions to this problem, but it seems the recently attempted ones aren't working, and I'm doubtful a heavier boot will fix things. But I'm no expert on these issues.

*cracks a beer and dons MOPP 4*

I'll be watching over here...

 

[taxi1]

There are no good solutions to this problem

Then I'll support the thriving open democracy over the closed theocracy, as at least it has the ability to introspect.

But...there are no good solutions here, I agree. Especially when Hamas pledges to destroy Israel and the Jews, and embeds themselves in the civilian population.

Demographics is destiny, and both the Israeli Arab population and the Haredis are out-pacing the more liberal Israelis. Neither want Israel to stay as it is. Nothing but train wreck on the horizon.

 

[sevenhelmet]

How do folks feel about the way that Israel has handled the Palestinians more generally for the last few decades? There's no excuse for Hamas' actions (and their beliefs regarding genocide against Jews generally), but if we are going to support Israel with more than just words, as we obviously are currently and have since their founding, should we not put strings on that aid, such as a requirement to end the current regime of apartheid? There are no good solutions to this problem, but it seems the recently attempted ones aren't working, and I'm doubtful a heavier boot will fix things. But I'm no expert on these issues.

I'm far from being an expert either, but the biggest mistake I think Israel made was in permitting Hamas to take over Gaza and (porously) walling themselves off from a totalitarian sharia state while creating an intelligence blind spot for themselves. You don't give this enemy time to prepare- they aren't going to back off their genocidal intentions simply because they were "left alone". Israel was warned about this, and for whatever reasons- likely politics- they chose not to heed.

None of that excuses in any way the barbaric acts of Hamas, nor the destabilizing force behind them, Iran. I don't buy the "humanitarian purposes only" line of BS regarding the $6B in unfrozen assets either. If you gave me money to pay the utilities, I'd have more money to spend on guns and ammo. You didn't give me money for gun stuff, but I wound up with more all the same. Iran needs to be sanctioned, frozen, and cut off to stop its bad behavior.

Unfortunately, I see all of this as just another turn of the wheel- Israel will respond righteously, and justifiably so. Until, they go too far in the eyes of the world, and get pressured into coming to the table to discuss options. I'm no fan of genocide, but if we're being intellectually honest, we know Hamas will use that for blackmail, drumming up sympathy with the appeasers, and rebuilding themselves to do this again in the next 10-20 years, with Iran's help.

How do we break that cycle? I have no answer.

 

[taxi1]

Definitely smart move that they re-froze the $6B.