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USMC VMFAT-101 Syllabus

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Your guess is as good as mine. I think if CQ goes away the T45 won't be terribly far behind. Bureaucratic contract hand wringing will ensue, but the wheels would be in motion.
Why? The jets have flight time left on them, and pulling them out of service would just mean they'd have to buy a bunch of T-7s. What benefit is there for that until the 45s are at FLE? Would it not make more sense to use up what you have before buying new aircraft?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
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Super Moderator
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Your guess is as good as mine. I think if CQ goes away the T45 won't be terribly far behind. Bureaucratic contract hand wringing will ensue, but the wheels would be in motion.

Are you talking about the T-45 fleet in general or just T-45's for E-2 types? I think the T-45 fleet will be around for a while longer, no use in being a new trainer if the 45's still have substantial life left in them.

Edit: Nittany beat me to it by a hair....
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
They would have to be major changes to the T-44 E2/C2 syllabus before they through students straight from the T-44 to the E-2.

If they're looking for ways to cut costs- and TRACOM CQ is one of those- it would make sense that E-2 guys will get their first boat experience in the FRS. It would make sense to send them through the entire multi syllabus if they need more flight time. Maybe even have a selection point for E-2 at wings instead of at the end of primary... (but that's just a guy with no dog in the fight spitballin)
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
FWIW, we're talking years until the T45 is gone.
Why? The jets have flight time left on them, and pulling them out of service would just mean they'd have to buy a bunch of T-7s. What benefit is there for that until the 45s are at FLE? Would it not make more sense to use up what you have before buying new aircraft?
Yeah, I'm talking years. But the lack of a CQ requirement gives the Navy options. Plus, the T45 is limited and going from it to a fifth gen platform is a big leap. It would be nice if we at least had a platform with link, or VMTS like the Pensacola bubbas have. No CQ frees up a lot of $$$ for things like that.

It'd also be nice of we didn't wait until the last minute. It's always cool to hear...."hey, we're gonna get you those things sometime in this half decade".
 

RandomGoat1248

Well-Known Member
If they're looking for ways to cut costs- and TRACOM CQ is one of those- it would make sense that E-2 guys will get their first boat experience in the FRS. It would make sense to send them through the entire multi syllabus if they need more flight time. Maybe even have a selection point for E-2 at wings instead of at the end of primary... (but that's just a guy with no dog in the fight spitballin)

The multi syllabus is only 8 flights and 2 sims longer than what we currently do. And currently 2 of those 8 flights are waived.
 

Pakol

Learner's permit
pilot
I am one of the first Marines to not go to the boat. We now have the boat and most, if not all, of FCLPs waived, in exchange for portions of Phase II that were recently waived: some ONAVs, RR, pop hop, SEM solo.


It sounds as if the strike syllabus is moving towards selecting platform early, and having tailored syllabi in Phase II for Growlers, Rhinos, F35Bs, etc.
 

SlickAg

Registered User
pilot
I honestly think everyone is standing around with bated breath until big Navy officially shit cans CQ at the TRACOM level, hopefully sometime towards the end of this calendar year.
I don’t think that’s happening anytime soon. All the FRSes are opposed to getting rid of T-45 CQ because they want the boat experience and you still have to show up to a good start.

The Marines are now going to platform select at the end of intermediate and tailor a syllabus based off of that. Step in the right direction.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
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It sounds as if the strike syllabus is moving towards selecting platform early, and having tailored syllabi in Phase II for Growlers, Rhinos, F35Bs, etc.
Funny, because that's the same way NFO land has operated for years. Split off P-3/E-6, then split off E-2, then back when Prowlers were a thing, they split off from the WSOs/Growler EWOs. Basically 4 different training tracks to wings, one of which (E-2) didn't wing until the FRS.

Admittedly, I'm hazy on the details since I'm a lousy half-breed. :)
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I don’t think that’s happening anytime soon. All the FRSes are opposed to getting rid of T-45 CQ because they want the boat experience and you still have to show up to a good start.

The Marines are now going to platform select at the end of intermediate and tailor a syllabus based off of that. Step in the right direction.
You have to show up to a good start in PLM to get good grades, not land safely.

I'm purely guessing at the time frame. I'm aware of how fast they could do it, but not sure how fast they're going to do it. I'd bet a paycheck it's gone before I retire in 2022.
 

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
You guys do realize that if you transition to the T-7, the "flare to land, squat to pee" jokes will be back on you, right?
That alone might cause CNATRA to reconsider the idea.

"In other news, Naval Aviation is considering having their pilots wear ascots. News at 11."
 

SlickAg

Registered User
pilot
You guys do realize that if you transition to the T-7, the "flare to land, squat to pee" jokes will be back on you, right?
That alone might cause CNATRA to reconsider the idea.

"In other news, Naval Aviation is considering having their pilots wear ascots. News at 11."
I can’t find the thread now talking about crud and stuff; but I’ll ask here.

Flown with a couple of former U-2 guys; liked them both. One of them was a former S-3 guy; the other a former FAIP.

I asked the former FAIP, who was now a carrier-qualified Naval Aviator, what the Air Force thought of the Navy’s fighter guys at large and his response was that they didn’t. Essentially, if they’re going to hate, they generally spend most of their time hating on other Air Force communities vice the Navy. What do you think about that.

Second, where does the U-2 community’s bar act fall out amongst the other communities. Since it’s such a diverse group of dudes is it sort of a mix of everything, fighter-y, anti-fighter-y?

Just curious. I read Ernest K. Gann’s “Black Watch” but it’s been a while and his info is probably dated by now.
 

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
You're talking about Bam Bam (S-3 guy) and Horny (FAIP). Both great Americans. Horny and I are good friends and he's a great guy, aviator, and person. He's doing well these days, too.

Horny is spot on. I've mentioned this in the past on other threads here (I think)... but the Navy's "hate" of the USAF isn't reciprocated. Yes, I know it's just rivalry and such... but as much as the Navy/Marines like to bust the AF's chops every chance they get... well, it's simply a cultural thing I guess. In the AF, we really don't talk smack about the Navy. It's just not part of what we do. I guess we have enough communities in-house that we can trash each other without leaving the family. I have no idea why it is what it is. But when the interservice rivalry comes up here, it's pretty benign and laid back. Unlike the time I showed up at Corpus' O'Club (long time ago) and a bunch of Marines put toilet paper around their necks to mimic the ascots they thought we always wore. When we laughed it off, that didn't go over well and they wanted to "take it outside" and duke it out. No punches were thrown but we were pretty surprised that we were the guests in town, rolling in to an O'Club on TDY pay and willing to buy everyone drinks... and that was the welcome we got. Whatever. Marines like to fight... right? We just wanted to drink and hang out with fellow aviators.

The U-2 Bar Act: hmmm... hard to describe since I'm a part of it. We are a mix of bombers, FAIP's, fighters, tankers, transports, etc... Since we got the Gold Wingers in to the community over 20 years ago, we have a shit ton of Navy/Marine culture too. I see guys wear their brown boots every now and then (a few good stories about that). I rolled my sleeves up "Navy style" once the Goldies showed up... and did it that way until the day I retired. Leadership here doesn't get wrapped up by it. Currently the U-2 leadership is about the best it has ever been.
Oddly enough, the guys I keep in touch with the most now are primarily former Gold Wingers from the U-2.

We don't point with our elbows... but we can do it in stride and laugh about it.
We can say "box" and "head"... not big deal.
We have callsigns... but not everyone has one. And if they don't... meh... who cares?
There's Jeremiah Weed in the bar... but everyone agrees it tastes like shit and we reserve it for punishment. But it's tradition. Gotta have it.
Our bar is always open. We don't need rules on when you can come in. If we can fly the mission that we do, we can probably figure out when it's ok to have a beer.
Our Solo Parties are epic. Our annual Homecoming even more so.
With ~1061 guys (including about 10 gals) that have flown the jet in 65+ years, we really relish "The Brotherhood". And it's a very tight community, with a lot of tradition and a ton of pride in what we do. I coordinate our Alumni Association, and it is an honor to be a part of it. I doubt that answers your question completely, but that's the best I can do tonight.

The U-2 is the Land of Misfit Toys. We don't belong in any "category". And that's a great thing.
 
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