I have chatted with AZ, on SIPR, about various topics. He isn't dumb or misinformed (though I'd suggest that his claim that the rhino is outclassed by some bobo Flanker is questionable).
You don't get to make this statement and keep your credibility:
You're the largest population of officers, by far, between aviators and NFOs. But you segment yourselves into pilots vs NFO; TACAIR vs Hummer vs MPRA vs Helo.
The result? While I have great respect for our airwings, they are totally outsticked by our peers. SWOs, since we really only have 3 real platforms (AEGIS, Amphib, other), have tended to align better, and as a result, stand more effectively against our potential adversaries.
Back to my initial question though? A line USN DDG vs a line PLAN DDG; or a line USN fighter vs a line PLAN fighter? The answer is pretty clear to anyone that's been paying attention.
You heard it here fighter folks. If you are sent up against any PLAN fighter you might as well punch out. We are fucked. And I thought I had been paying attention.
Collide with other ships? Please. Let's look at how many aviation class A's there have been in the last 10 years, compared to surface ship class A's.
With my parochialism argument - it's nothing to do with mishaps, but everything to do with how effective we are at the "high end fight."
Here's a hint - helo guys don't really have a seat at the table when we talk about the "high end fight."
1. I shouldn't have to explain this, but you are talking about a difference between airplanes and ships. If an airplane loses it's engine, it loses lift, and if it doesn't have enough lift, it crashes. We also fight so hard we blackout. There is nothing like that in SWOville. When a ship has an engine causality, it just floats on the water. I wonder how many ships we would have left if every time we lost an engine that ship sank. How's your LCS program doing by the way?
2. So you are saying our SWOs are better at the high end fight? That must be why Naval Aviation copied the surface community's schoolhouse construct then. That makes sense.
3. I hope I have a seat at this high-end fight table. But while I'm there, I'd like to invite our helo guys to the table. You know, the ones that help find these surface / sub-surface contacts for you tactical guys to engage, sitting in your cushy chairs. And since we are talking high end, I will probably want some 60S guys there to talk about how they are going to pick me up out of the drink after those "outsticking" Flankers put me into my silk. And the MPRA guys out there alone and unafraid, really painting your surface picture. I'm not going to invite the C-2 guys though, even though they do tactical stuff, because they are too busy enjoying their per diem, hotels, good food, and booze, so I know they don't even want a seat.
Give it a rest - at least SWOs aren't colliding with each other or "falling out of the sky" all by themselves. In terms of letting a whole community of people get outsticked/behind the curve (talk to your AI for specifics), it's pretty horrific.
Yes, you have a whole watch team that allows you to crash into ships moving at 10-20 knots. You don't get to claim those crashes on your own. It takes a whole team.
And I don't need to talk to my AI on threat specifics. My job is to know my enemy, and sure as shit don't wait for an AI to tell me about it.
The CVN is an AIRFOR asset because their one and only mission to to launch a strike package.
Next time I'm sent on a DCA / OCA / CAS / Maritime strike mission / SSC ..... I will tell them to fuck off. Our only mission is the strike package.
Don't have a dog in this fight, but SWOs do drive, and make the ships run that Aviators (well most of you live on and fly off of) live half of your lives on.
The boat I fly off of is driven by an aviator. Just saying.
As a representative of his SWO, kill-chain centric brotherhood, he isn't doing his community any favors.
PS azguy, you are trying to argue that Naval Aviation is parochial (narrow minded) with the facts that we have many mission sets, that involve several platforms and sub-communities. That sounds like the antithesis of parochialism to me. I see you have been gone for a bit. I hope this was just a drive-by trolling and you aren't really this much of an idiot.