Dude, what?
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USAF Enlisted Pilots, The Right Stuff, Stolen Bikes, AIC, and SWO pipe dreams.
- Thread starter Farva01
- Start date
Dude, what?
Take a DDG-51 class vs a Luyang II or Jiangkai II; and an F-18 vs a J-11 or Su-30. Pretty divergent spread in capability.
Now I'm even more confused. What does that have to do with community alignment or "segmenting"?
And you could just as easily replace Luyang II with III, just like you could replace Su-30 with J-20, or Harpoon vs YJ-12.
So I'm confused where you're going with bringing up equipment.
Wait, are you saying potential adversaries in reference to other militaries or your fellow Officers?
I’m confused...
It's all about strategic planning, as a force. As in, what has the (fill in the blank) community prioritized and worked towards over the years? The SURFOR is less segmented than AIRFOR. Makes funding decisions much easier to execute.
Don't want to get beyond the scope of open source, but let's think realistically, from a force perspective. Hint: that's why not J-20 or Ly-III. Also, Harpoon vs YJ-12? Wtf?
Back to my initial question though? A line USN DDG vs a line PLAN DDG; or a line USN fighter vs a line PLAN fighter? The answer is pretty clear to anyone that's been paying attention.
I think it’s quaint you still believe you will actually be the one engaging OPFOR surface vessels...
It's quaint that you think that MPRA will survive mere hours into any phase of conflict without AEGIS or TACAIR (one hour at a time) keeping you alive.
I wish I could like your comment more than once, just for this part.
RedFive made an important point about surface guys and aviation stuff, though he phrased it pretty harshly. I and my peers have seen plenty of examples of bad shiphandling that defied both instruction and common sense- and resulted in near misses or sometimes mishaps. Case in point, and with all due respect to Jana Vavasseur's fine officership and qualities as a decent human being (I want to stress that I mean that with neither sarcasm nor insincerity), the surface navy screwed up by selecting her for major command afloat. Doing that set a poor precedent to other surface warfare officers who don't always take the time and effort to understand the effects of their actions on "things unrelated to the ship."
Don't take my comment personally or as throwing stones from one glass house at another; gold wingers have plenty of our own ongoing buffoonery. Always have, always will...
samb
Active Member
It's interesting that earlier in this conversation it was pointed out that your prior enlisted folks have trouble adjusting when placed into a warrant officer role. I have seen the same thing in Army Aviation from folks coming from the Navy, specifically as junior warrant officers. I haven't seen them take well to the warrant officer culture, I think because they have preconceived notions based on their interactions with officers during their time in the Navy. I don't really see the same thing from the Army side, generally their enlisted time makes them well rounded.
Obviously there are exceptions in both cases. It's not just prior enlisted struggling either. I'm a street to seater, and I'll tell you there are major culture problems amongst my peers as well. Especially in their ability to suck it up and deal with the Army side of the job.
Anyways, when it comes to flying an aircraft and understanding the battle space they weren't at an advantage nor a disadvantage to any other aviator.
Obviously there are exceptions in both cases. It's not just prior enlisted struggling either. I'm a street to seater, and I'll tell you there are major culture problems amongst my peers as well. Especially in their ability to suck it up and deal with the Army side of the job.
Anyways, when it comes to flying an aircraft and understanding the battle space they weren't at an advantage nor a disadvantage to any other aviator.
I never said we would. Not our role...I happily rely on the safety net provided by my TACAIR brethren (1.6 hours x 3-4 cycles at a time, thanks to this newfangled refueling concept) from the Navy or Chair Force and even your Aegis net (when I’m not completely by myself in blue water) or even accepting we are the fat kid with the big radar cross section.
Your assertion that you are somehow better war fighters because your scope is limited to three platforms and a few weapons systems is flawed at best. Anyone can memorize a few TTP’s, but being able to use them effectively requires a mindset your community generally lacks: adaptability and flexibility.
You are so used to asking permission, staying in your box, and not questioning what you see, or what others see, that you repeat the same mistakes over and over again.
The difference between most SWO JO’s and most Aviation JO’s is we will be able to independently operate with weapons release authority (offensive and defensive) as a LTJG or LT, whereas your basic SWO won’t generally see that until they are at least a DH. We train to engage different OPFOR platforms, across the spectrum of targets, and get the responsibility and authority to exercise that training much earlier in our career.
That individual combatant mindset is what sets us apart from you.
Will I ever use it? Probably not. Do my TACAIR friendo’s get to? Absolutely.
Other than the use of Tomahawks from OTH for strikes on land targets and counter piracy, the surface Navy has been relatively insulated from actual combat since the Vietnam war.
So spare me the “we are actually better in theory” bullshit.
Pickle
Sick burn.
I mean, surface ships have been killing a shit load of bad guys with TLAM since 9/11. MPRA haven't done any damage. No contest.
So your argument is that you don't have to ask permission to NOT kill any bad guys?
Yeah, we totally do nothing...