This is one of those things that tests my personal rule to never be bitter because somebody who got a better deal than me. At the same time (just in this case), my hat is off to the people who pulled it off!
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Transition to FTS
- Thread starter bryanweatherup
- Start date
bucks87
SNA
How long are typical AGR orders, and are they typically competitive to get in Guard/Reserve units or looking for bodies to fill them from SELRES pilots?
I’ve seen 1-3 years on AGR orders. Competitiveness depends on what type of orders you are trying to get. Obviously flying orders are harder to get but there are non-flying orders that guys will take to get their active duty time.
Flying AGR orders usually go to guys within the unit, sort of a pay your dues type thing.
Adding a bit to @insanebikerboy 's post-
Flying AGR jobs are very competitive, and it's rare for units to hire from outside. If they do, it's because they have a very specific need that they can't fill from within or they did something really bad and the State Adjutant General, or the Guard Bureau wants to change the entire culture of the unit.
AGR hiring is done via a board process. There are varying levels on who can apply. Level 1 is AGRs only (these are generally for a bring your own AGR to a billet- but they can also be for a promotion) within that state. Level 2 is for DSGs in the state. Level 3 is for a nationwide search. There are others as well.
There are a few different types of fulltime/AGR orders.
Some AGR orders stay with you, others stay with the billet.
The AGR orders that stay with you are on an initial 4 year period- after 4 years you have to be retained on AGR, and then you keep them for the rest of your career. It's rare to not be retained on AGR after 4 years. You can stay on AGR until 20 years of active service, then you have to have a waiver to get to 22, and again to get to 24 years. After 24 years, if you're active duty you're going to be promoted into jobs that are no longer AGR, but other types of billet based orders.
Any AGR above O-3 rank has to have a control grade for their rank. This is because each state only gets so many O-4, O-5, and O-6 AGRs. If you're in an O-3 AGR, and it's promotable to O-4 or O-5, you still have to have an O-4 control grade to get promoted. This is how AGRs get stalled in the promotion process. You may be selected and not promote for 3-4 years depending on how your unit/state is manned. If you're in an O-4 AGR and you want to get promoted to O-5, you have to get an overgrade waiver, and an O-5 control grade to be promoted. This isn't a big deal on the Officer side, but it's a HUGE deal on the enlisted AGR side. There are guys who get stuck at E-6 for a decade after being selected for E-7, because they can't take their AGR with them when they promote and there are no E-7 AGRs open.
Other types of non-permanent AGR orders-
Temp AGR- you can slide into Temp AGR orders- they are just like regular AGR orders but they don't come with any guarantee beyond the length of the orders, and you're not eligible for any bonuses. Essentially what is happening is that unit has an AGR job open that hasn't been bid out, but they need someone on orders to do the job. It's a way to have a set of AD orders for someone if they run into a really hard time on the civilian side and the unit wants to take care of them for anywhere from 30 to 180 days.
OTOT- One Time Operational Tour- these are anywhere from 1-3 years- they are AGR but they're billet based only. Lots of Wing and higher headquarters billets are like this- as well as the O-6 and above billets.
STAT - Statutory Tour, there are like OTOT but are for higher headquarters staff tours. These can be on a lot of different title of orders depending on what you're doing.
A lot of AGR tours for the ANG are Title 32 orders that convert in place to Title 10 when needed. Reserve are all Title 10. This means nothing to anyone but the lawyers and bean counters as they're both AD orders.
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Probably more likely in VR than anywhere. My recommendation would be to ask about it pretty soon after getting to your squadron.
Seems cyclical with airline hiring. Given that hiring is up and TARs are bailing, retours seem more common (anecdotally). That being said, you may be over the VR's reindeer games after one tour.
Yeah I kind of figured that as well. I’m not opposed to just going terminal O4 and riding it out at random shore tours either.
Unless you're universally opposed to airlines or really love the Navy, I have a feeling once you see the QoL/pay potential of airlines + reserve retirement it'll be enlightening.
Not universally opposed so much as something I’ve never been super interested in. I know everyone says the pay and QoL are great but even with VR I’d probably have to start at a regional since I got C-130s and idk if I really want the airline lifestyle of being away from home a lot. Maybe I’m off base there.
But yeah, you never know. That’s why I’m excited about VR...definitely opens some doors that otherwise would not have been there. I’m sure I will meet a lot of SELRES airline guys that will sell me on it.
They aren't going to let you go from C-130s to C-40s. The only people I have heard of transitioning is people who pick up command and it requires the platform change. I've only heard of requests being shot down outside of that. Don't count on that.
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Ah, I didn’t even know that was really a thing. Is that pretty normal to be a C-130 DH and end up as XO/CO in C-40 land?
Tbh, don’t even care so much about the difference in aircraft; but imho the C-40 locations are a lot better. Whether or not I could be the CO of a C-40 squadron could make a big difference in my “stay the golden path” calculus.
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My Skipper was a C-130 guy then picked up command and went to a C-40 squadron. But I've seen it the other way around too.
Why would you have to go to the regionals because you went C-130's? Off topic, the regionals are paying pretty well these days, FWIW
That’s just what I’ve been told by several TAR folks. C-130 guys with helo backgrounds are not typically finishing their initial tours with enough hours to go straight to majors.