Transition to FTS

[insanebikerboy]

Anyone have recent gouge on the feasibility of getting multiple flying tours in a row in FTS? Are they still forcing folks to NOSC tours, regardless of their desire to stay competitive for O-5?

Thanks!

I went as an active duty LT to a reserve squadron, switched to FTS, picked up O-4, and stayed until I was up for O-5. So, I officially had three concurrent sets of orders flying in the reserve world, one as an active duty guy then two as an FTS guy.

When I tried to stay longer or switch to a different FTS community and keep flying, I was pretty much told no fucking way. I even said I was willing to get shot in the face on FITREPs, to stay terminal O-4, but still was told nope. Hence, I said peace out and switched to the Air Force.

The reserve world will eventually get their pound of flesh out of you, and that’s most likely either in a NOSC or at a reserve staff.

There are very few O-5 flying billets in the FTS world. Promotion rates to O-5 have hovered around 35% the past few years for pilots.

I really enjoyed being FTS but my goal was to keep flying, which is not impossible but really hard to do. These days, in the FTS world if you don’t screen for command (or get a coveted/rare OIC slot), you’re done flying. The hardly mentioned benefit of being a senior O-4/5 in a FTS staff or NOSC job is that your chance of deploying is virtually non-existent for the rest of your career.

My experience is two years old, but I stay in touch with guys I know that are still FTS and it’s accurate gouge.

 

[Jim123]

three concurrent sets of orders flying

The reserve world will eventually get their pound of flesh out of you, and that’s most likely either in a NOSC or at a reserve staff.

This is very true. There are exceptions and certainly a few of my friends have lucked out otherwise, but if you want a 20 year active retirement then sooner or later you're going to have to take your turn doing one of these jobs.

 

[Mirage]

I went as an active duty LT to a reserve squadron, switched to FTS, picked up O-4, and stayed until I was up for O-5. So, I officially had three concurrent sets of orders flying in the reserve world, one as an active duty guy then two as an FTS guy.

When I tried to stay longer or switch to a different FTS community and keep flying, I was pretty much told no fucking way. I even said I was willing to get shot in the face on FITREPs, to stay terminal O-4, but still was told nope. Hence, I said peace out and switched to the Air Force.

The reserve world will eventually get their pound of flesh out of you, and that’s most likely either in a NOSC or at a reserve staff.

There are very few O-5 flying billets in the FTS world. Promotion rates to O-5 have hovered around 35% the past few years for pilots.

I really enjoyed being FTS but my goal was to keep flying, which is not impossible but really hard to do. These days, in the FTS world if you don’t screen for command (or get a coveted/rare OIC slot), you’re done flying. The hardly mentioned benefit of being a senior O-4/5 in a FTS staff or NOSC job is that your chance of deploying is virtually non-existent for the rest of your career.

My experience is two years old, but I stay in touch with guys I know that are still FTS and it’s accurate gouge.

Thanks so much for that! Very helpful. One follow up if you have a minute. Were you at HSC-85, and if so, do you think your ability to string together flying tours was because of that, or do you know if that's common right now in the VR or VT/HT worlds as well?

 

[insanebikerboy]

Thanks so much for that! Very helpful. One follow up if you have a minute. Were you at HSC-85, and if so, do you think your ability to string together flying tours was because of that, or do you know if that's common right now in the VR or VT/HT worlds as well?

Yes to 85, and my timing was perfect to get three consecutive (better @Jim123? ?) sets. Thats not common.

I did have a buddy with me at 85, he is a year or two junior to me, that they did allow to go to VR. I talked to him a few weeks ago and reserve Navy is trying to force him into said NOSC or staff job now too.

Depending on when you switch/how senior you are, you might get two sets of flying orders. I haven’t kept up with the FTS transition boards as of late so I’m not sure when guys are able to get off AD. I think if you can get to FTS land as a senior LT, you’ve got a chance at two sets of orders. If you are a LCDR when you switch, realistically you’ll get one. Obviously, if you can screen for CO you’ll get to fly again.

 

[Hair Warrior]

The reserve world will eventually get their pound of flesh out of you, and that’s most likely either in a NOSC or at a reserve staff.

This is very true. There are exceptions and certainly a few of my friends have lucked out otherwise, but if you want a 20 year active retirement then sooner or later you're going to have to take your turn doing one of these jobs.

To anyone reading this: If and when you or your FTS friends get to a NOSC as a DH, XO, or CO, please for the love of Poseidon and all the ships at sea do your best (not that you wouldn't) to make things simpler, smaller, and smarter in whatever areas you can actually affect. A little sanity goes a long way.

Example: Wherever possible, remove the requirement for a Social Security Number on a signed form, and replace it with something non-PII sensitive (DoDID/EDIPI number? name/rank/RUIC only?) assuming your boss and applicable law/reg/policy will allow it. This will save untold hours of reservists' time not having to send PDFs back n' forth encrypted to each other and the NOSC, shredding paper copies, fiddle-farting around with their home laptops to try to make the S/MIME control work on their web browser, and so on. It's the little things.

 

[Pags]

To anyone reading this: If and when you or your FTS friends get to a NOSC as a DH, XO, or CO, please for the love of Poseidon and all the ships at sea do your best (not that you wouldn't) to make things simpler, smaller, and smarter in whatever areas you can actually affect. A little sanity goes a long way.

Example: Wherever possible, remove the requirement for a Social Security Number on a signed form, and replace it with something non-PII sensitive (DoDID/EDIPI number? name/rank/RUIC only?) assuming your boss and applicable law/reg/policy will allow it. This will save untold hours of reservists' time not having to send PDFs back n' forth encrypted to each other and the NOSC, shredding paper copies, fiddle-farting around with their home laptops to try to make the S/MIME control work on their web browser, and so on. It's the little things.

I think EDIPI is now considered PII.

 

[RedFive]

Thanks so much for that! Very helpful. One follow up if you have a minute. Were you at HSC-85, and if so, do you think your ability to string together flying tours was because of that, or do you know if that's common right now in the VR or VT/HT worlds as well?

As someone who turned down VR to go AF, I'm going to tell you what all my mentors said (both real life and the old farts here)...

Go AF and never look back. I think @insanebikerboy would agree with me when I say...the AF is a little weird sometimes, but overall the opportunity is totally worth it.

 

[hooflys]

Another data point, I picked up FTS with 9.5 years active service (Spring '17) and started my first FTS DH tour about a year and half later (August '18; pinned O-4 a few days after checking in). Aug '19 I submitted for a VR transition and found out in Spring '20 I would roll to a VR squadron early '21 (about 8mos before my original PRD) for a second DH tour. This next gig will take me to 16.5 years. My assumption is that a twilight flying tour to take me to 20 is a stretch, but frankly most of my career has been a stretch. We'll see.

 

[Surf]

As someone who turned down VR to go AF, I'm going to tell you what all my mentors said (both real life and the old farts here)...

Go AF and never look back. I think @insanebikerboy would agree with me when I say...the AF is a little weird sometimes, but overall the opportunity is totally worth it.

-Thread Revival-
What platform did you come from and go to? I just hit the 7 year mark and am considering dropping an FTS package with the intent to go VR. I am a helo bubba trying to get back over to the FW side. Does the AF have something similar? Can anyone speak to the quality of life on your first FTS tour? Thanks!

 

[RedFive]

-Thread Revival-
What platform did you come from and go to? I just hit the 7 year mark and am considering dropping an FTS package with the intent to go VR. I am a helo bubba trying to get back over to the FW side. Does the AF have something similar? Can anyone speak to the quality of life on your first FTS tour? Thanks!

I flew Sierras, was competitive with EPs, Level IIIi quals across the board, and Letters of Rec from all my COs/CDREs. Despite all that, I didn't get picked up until the 3rd application. The FTS detailer told me that's because they only have so many slots and have to try to catch guys who apply right before they get out. If they see you still have time left on your commitment, apply anyways, but expect them to pick you up on a later board. Also, your community has first right of refusal, so if you want to bypass the whole Score DET/85 thing, you need to drop your letter and cross your fingers that it pays off for you.

Things to consider about VR: As a helo bubba they like to send you C-130s over C-40s. It's absolutely not a rule we all know helo guys who love their C-40 life, but it is a trend item. Also consider that you'll be stationed at any one of 10 bases. Research them and make sure you're cool with living in Louisiana, South Jersey, etc. FTS is all about running the squadron and the SELRES are the priority. You'll start out right seat. You get to herd all the cats and do all the DH stuff without having JOs to do a lot of the leg work. It's a 3 year assignment, after which you may or may not get another flying gig. Running a NOSC could be in your future. I'd touch base with some FTS types and get the scoop directly.

AF Reserves and Guard have two very similar full-time roles to run their squadrons. The first is called AGR and it's essentially a mirror equivalent of FTS, however you're permanently assigned to your squadron. If you want to be an AGR for years and years and finish out your 20 at your squadron, you can do that. We have a couple of AGRs who left AD, got hired by airlines, and came back as AGR to finish out their 20. They'll be going back to their airlines with decent seniority and an AD retirement.

The other option is a GS position called ART (Air Reserve Technician). It's tricky to explain, but you're a GS who wears a uniform (if you want to, I guess...most do) but you're also a Reservist...so you can bounce between GS duty and different Reserve duty statuses. It's kind of complicated, but ARTs also get to stay at their squadron for as long as they want. TRs (Traditional Reservists, aka Air Force speak for SELRES) also have priority over AGRs/ARTs, so that part isn't different.

If you find the right squadron with the right airframe and the right amount of desperation, they'll hire you directly into the left seat. You'll do a course at the FTU (FRS) which is a transition course for ACs coming from other airframes. The old sim IPs will give you lots of shit about being a rotorhead, you will be frustrated on many occasions, and you may even question your decision to join the AF.....but in the end you'll be logging heavy multi-engine turbine PIC time.

That's a lot to digest, I know. I'd recommend you checkout this thread in PNA: https://www.airwarriors.com/community/threads/is-the-grass-greener-i-need-advice.46466/

 

[Surf]

I flew Sierras, was competitive with EPs, Level IIIi quals across the board, and Letters of Rec from all my COs/CDREs. Despite all that, I didn't get picked up until the 3rd application. The FTS detailer told me that's because they only have so many slots and have to try to catch guys who apply right before they get out. If they see you still have time left on your commitment, apply anyways, but expect them to pick you up on a later board. Also, your community has first right of refusal, so if you want to bypass the whole Score DET/85 thing, you need to drop your letter and cross your fingers that it pays off for you.

Things to consider about VR: As a helo bubba they like to send you C-130s over C-40s. It's absolutely not a rule we all know helo guys who love their C-40 life, but it is a trend item. Also consider that you'll be stationed at any one of 10 bases. Research them and make sure you're cool with living in Louisiana, South Jersey, etc. FTS is all about running the squadron and the SELRES are the priority. You'll start out right seat. You get to herd all the cats and do all the DH stuff without having JOs to do a lot of the leg work. It's a 3 year assignment, after which you may or may not get another flying gig. Running a NOSC could be in your future. I'd touch base with some FTS types and get the scoop directly.

AF Reserves and Guard have two very similar full-time roles to run their squadrons. The first is called AGR and it's essentially a mirror equivalent of FTS, however you're permanently assigned to your squadron. If you want to be an AGR for years and years and finish out your 20 at your squadron, you can do that. We have a couple of AGRs who left AD, got hired by airlines, and came back as AGR to finish out their 20. They'll be going back to their airlines with decent seniority and an AD retirement.

The other option is a GS position called ART (Air Reserve Technician). It's tricky to explain, but you're a GS who wears a uniform (if you want to, I guess...most do) but you're also a Reservist...so you can bounce between GS duty and different Reserve duty statuses. It's kind of complicated, but ARTs also get to stay at their squadron for as long as they want. TRs (Traditional Reservists, aka Air Force speak for SELRES) also have priority over AGRs/ARTs, so that part isn't different.

If you find the right squadron with the right airframe and the right amount of desperation, they'll hire you directly into the left seat. You'll do a course at the FTU (FRS) which is a transition course for ACs coming from other airframes. The old sim IPs will give you lots of shit about being a rotorhead, you will be frustrated on many occasions, and you may even question your decision to join the AF.....but in the end you'll be logging heavy multi-engine turbine PIC time.

That's a lot to digest, I know. I'd recommend you checkout this thread in PNA: https://www.airwarriors.com/community/threads/is-the-grass-greener-i-need-advice.46466/

That’s great information, thank you! I am also a Sierra dude. Did you apply to the AF post-shore tour and transition at your MSR or were you able to get released early?

 

[RedFive]

or were you able to get released early?

I requested to extend a few months past MSR while at my shore command (they couldn't force me to go to the boat because of flight school mx and wx delays back in the day) and spent the last six months AD on Skillbridge. +1 would recommend.

 

[Surf]

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I requested to extend a few months past MSR while at my shore command (they couldn't force me to go to the boat because of flight school mx and wx delays back in the day) and spent the last six months AD on Skillbridge. +1 would recommend.

Haha yeah I get it, thanks for the info. I’ll check out those AF programs.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Haha yeah I get it, thanks for the info. I’ll check out those AF programs.

Be sure to research where you try and go, if you want to try for the AF guard/reserve. When I switched over I contemplated the reserve unit in March (Riverside). Three years ago they were basically taking anyone with wings. Due to covid, now they are only taking current AF KC-135 instructor pilots.

 

[Surf]

Be sure to research where you try and go, if you want to try for the AF guard/reserve. When I switched over I contemplated the reserve unit in March (Riverside). Three years ago they were basically taking anyone with wings. Due to covid, now they are only taking current AF KC-135 instructor pilots.

Ideally any base in FL, I just don’t currently live there so I can’t walk in.