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The Russians are keeping a lid on the Arctic Sea "investigation"

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
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http://djtechnocrat.blogspot.com/2009/09/russian-s-300-missiles-captured-in.html

Slow day & thought some might enjoy this blog. Am NOT trying to stir the pot on this issue. States have secrets, and we may struggle to ever learn exactly what went down on the Arctic Sea.

Really nothing new, just a rehash of previously covered speculation. Saw this article the other day and thought it was interesting, the reporter actually researched the issue.

In Russia, some people got kill based on race....Near nosie animals and animal mouthes demons of bloods and also in FLORIDA. Near the racist white chamblee dunwoody animal mouthes some guys outside manners but mouthes like dog whore bloods even you don't know who they are.

Who are you?
 

Brett327

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In your face, conspiracy theorists! The BBC has spoken! :D

Brett
 

Brett327

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The BBC is obviously working with the Russians to cover up what really happened......

Dude, don't say that. You'll blow the whole operation (and I'll lose all that cash I have invested in anti-piracy futures)! :D

Brett
 

Fog

Old RIOs never die: They just can't fast-erect
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Contributor
If you go to Yahoo News you'll find a story of the Israelis capturing another vessel loaded with 60 tons of missiles, rockets & anti-tank weapons intended for Hezbollah or Hamas elements in the area. There may be no Russian connection here at all, but it does demonstrate once again the will & ability of Israel & its intelligence services to protect its territory. There is no confusion among Israelis that this crap is a "law & order" issue. I'm sorry I couldn't paste the news thread & I didn't want to copy & paste & get in trouble again. FWIW.
 

Flash

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If you go to Yahoo News you'll find a story of the Israelis capturing another vessel loaded with 60 tons of missiles, rockets & anti-tank weapons intended for Hezbollah or Hamas elements in the area. There may be no Russian connection here at all, but it does demonstrate once again the will & ability of Israel & its intelligence services to protect its territory. There is no confusion among Israelis that this crap is a "law & order" issue. I'm sorry I couldn't paste the news thread & I didn't want to copy & paste & get in trouble again. FWIW.

Here is a link about the story.

One thing this demonstrates is Israel is all for showing off a lot of these types of ops to the world. It showcases their impressive ability to conduct these types of ops in addition to shedding a light on the suppliers and enablers of the terrorist groups target Israel. It is in marked contrast to the the baseless rumors surrounding the M/V Arctic Sea, with which Israel has disclaimed any involvement with.
 

Uncle Fester

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...It is in marked contrast to the the baseless rumors surrounding the M/V Arctic Sea, with which Israel has disclaimed any involvement with.

On the other hand, Israel still hasn't officially said anything about last year's raid into Syria. Not saying I think they had anything to do with the Arctic Sea, just that their official silence or denial doesn't necessarily mean anything. The Israelis are well aware that their national survival depends in large part on knowing exactly who they can afford to piss off, ignore, or make nice with.
 

Fog

Old RIOs never die: They just can't fast-erect
None
Contributor
Here is a link about the story.

One thing this demonstrates is Israel is all for showing off a lot of these types of ops to the world. It showcases their impressive ability to conduct these types of ops in addition to shedding a light on the suppliers and enablers of the terrorist groups target Israel. It is in marked contrast to the the baseless rumors surrounding the M/V Arctic Sea, with which Israel has disclaimed any involvement with.


Flash-O:

You have your opinions, and others have theirs. You can't make an issue pointless by stuffing your opinions up our rears - nor can I, for that matter. There are lots of sources out there - in Europe, Russia & Israel - that believe that the Arctic Sea was carrying weapons of some sort destined for Iran. Until you can prove your opinions, why not be a good sport and state them as such.
 

Mumbles

Registered User
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[/U][/B][/I]

Flash-O:

You have your opinions, and others have theirs. You can't make an issue pointless by stuffing your opinions up our rears - nor can I, for that matter. There are lots of sources out there - in Europe, Russia & Israel - that believe that the Arctic Sea was carrying weapons of some sort destined for Iran. Until you can prove your opinions, why not be a good sport and state them as such.

Sorry...
I have to chime in here. As much as I love to hate on the bed wetting pinko Flash.... He IS absolutely privy what the American Intel Community thinks about S-300s bound for Iran. And there is NO way that he can prove his opinions on this forum. Lets just say that there is a lot of Vince Flynn novel shit going on and leave it at that.
 

Mumbles

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The Intel Community is a big place. Not many have the whole picture.


And how....

I'm not dismissing anyone's theories.....because the truth is....nobody really knows in this country. Up and to including the IC. Don't mean to turn this into "I have a TS/SCI clearance, and you don't!" thread....which is always ridiculous... but Flash and a few others do see this stuff on a daily basis.
 

Brett327

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[/B]

And how....

I'm not dismissing anyone's theories.....because the truth is....nobody really knows in this country. Up and to including the IC. Don't mean to turn this into "I have a TS/SCI clearance, and you don't!" thread....which is always ridiculous... but Flash and a few others do see this stuff on a daily basis.

Didn't want to bring this up and make implications, but yeah...Mumbles might just be on to something WRT why some of us have certain opinions. ;)

Brett
 

Shpion1

Member
Contributor
couple of things

the Israelis are really good at what they do. They are pretty decent at interdicting Iranian shipments to Hezbollah, Gaza etc. See Santorini, Karine-A and a couple of others during this decade. They sometimes get a little help, but are pretty self sufficient. More difficult for them to intercept stuff coming through Damascus, but they hold their own.

The Russian sale of S-300 to Iran can be looked at as a bargaining chip by the Russians. Ever wonder why they haven't been delivered yet? There's been stories for about 10 years that the Iranians are getting it. Not yet, although they (Iran) was apeased in 05 with the shorter range Tor M1. But no S300 PMU yet. My personal take is that the system is nothing but a pawn in the game of chess between US and Russia. With Iran being a sidelined party. The Russians KNOW that introducing this system in Iran is a serious game changer, thus the more important bargaining chip.

As far as the Arctic Sea and missile systems, etal.

The line in the story quoted above and in others about Russian "Mafia" selling S-300 to IRan is laughable. Seriously. Not much happens in Russia without FSB and GRU knowing, thus the Kremlin knowing. Especially regarding such a system, being delivered of all places to Iran.

Arctic Sea supposedly loaded in Kaliningrad. Seriously. That means the missile system would have had to be smuggled 1) out of Russia 2) through Belarus through either 3) Lithuania or 4)Poland to Kaliningrad which is isolated, not part of contiguous Russia. Not very likely.

Especially when you think of the missile system. And think of loading it onto the ship. You have the control system, then the aqcuisition truck radar (Big Bird), then the Illuminator Truck, then a low alt radar truck, then as an option another radar truck. Then the support vehicle(s). THEN, you add the missile TELs. Each carries 4 birds. A system can handle up to 12 TELS. Lets say that they have 4 TELS per battery. Thats a lot of trucks, a lot of BIG trucks. Now think about sneaking all of this through borders, loading it wihtout anyone noticing on a merchant ship. By crane. Arctic Sea not a RORO. Ahhh, Nope.

Also, the RUssians sent a frigate to intercept Arctic Sea and remove contraband. What did they do with it? Not likely they dumped it over the side, unless they wanted to waste 200-400 million (depends on deal).

So highly unlikely when an overland route with much more bribe prone officials available through the Stans.

This system is not like the SCUDS that we intercepted from DPRK to Yemen. Empty of fuel, just shells in the cargo load. Thats would fit nice with lumber. So my humble opinion is that it could have been a lot of things, but definitely not missile systems.

What was it? No idea. We may never know. Can take some guesses, but whatever it was, could have been embarrasing to Putin. So he handled it the way the Russians handle stuff. But reading Wiki and taking it as ground truth is not a viable option. So we speculate as individuals. Those that know, will NOT say what it is on this forum or others. SOme of us will speculate backed by whatever experience we've acquired over the years.

Back to the Israelis, they handle their concerns fairly well. When it suits them they publicize their accomplishments (Santorini)(http://www.waronline.org/en/analysis/pal_weapons.htm), when it doesn't, they don't (Syria) because they play with the big boys.

By the way, good story in Spiegel re Orchard op in Syria
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,658663,00.html

didn't realize this was this long...ooops
 
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