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The Russians are keeping a lid on the Arctic Sea "investigation"

xj220

Will fly for food.
pilot
Contributor
I understand where you're coming from Brett, but it seems too fishy to be just a standard hijacking, or at least to take at just face value. I'm not one to listen to conspiracy theorists, but looking at some of the facts raises an eyebrow. A ship carrying lumber was hijacked near Sweden, a place where piracy rarely occurs if at all. The cargo isn't exactly precious and there was no ransom demands. Finally, the ship just appears off of Africa.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I understand where you're coming from Brett, but it seems too fishy to be just a standard hijacking, or at least to take at just face value. I'm not one to listen to conspiracy theorists, but looking at some of the facts raises an eyebrow. A ship carrying lumber was hijacked near Sweden, a place where piracy rarely occurs if at all. The cargo isn't exactly precious and there was no ransom demands. Finally, the ship just appears off of Africa.

Most of the time, pirates aren't after the cargo, but the ransom to get the ship and crew back. It makes no sense for Russia to ship anything destined for Iran all the way around the European continent when they have direct access to Iran via the Caspian Sea and rail routes - a route they've historically used for stuff like this.

Brett
 

xj220

Will fly for food.
pilot
Contributor
Fair enough and that does make more sense. I'm not necessarily agreeing with what's being said in the articles, I'm just saying that looking at the circumstances it seems that there's more than what we're being told about the situation. Also, there's been nothing mentioned of ransom.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor

Nothing but sheer speculation by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

Most of the time, pirates aren't after the cargo, but the ransom to get the ship and crew back. It makes no sense for Russia to ship anything destined for Iran all the way around the European continent when they have direct access to Iran via the Caspian Sea and rail routes - a route they've historically used for stuff like this.

Brett

Someone with an ounce of common sense and critical thinking skills, thank the lord!

Fair enough and that does make more sense. I'm not necessarily agreeing with what's being said in the articles, I'm just saying that looking at the circumstances it seems that there's more than what we're being told about the situation. Also, there's been nothing mentioned of ransom.

How do you know?

A couple things that hurt the whole 'missile smuggling' story:

Why risk smuggling something through Finland, which also supposedly inspected ship?

Why take the long way around, past Israel of all places, when there is a 'protected' route straight to Iran across the Caspian?

The M/V Arctic Sea is an awfully small ship to be carrying SA-10's (S-300's), where the hell are they going to put them with the timber? Remember, the missile aren't worth squat without all the support equipment like control vans, radars and launchers.

As corrupt as Russia is SA-10's are not something you can find at the local bazaar or being sold out the back gate at the local base. They are an important source of income and a significant capability that Russia keeps a close eye on.

Anything can be made a 'state secret' in Russia, it is not uncommon, especially when dealing when it comes to something embarrassing like some of their citizens involved in piracy.

And probably the biggest one, if Israel was supposedly involved the ship would almost certainly either be on the bottom of the sea or paraded in front of the world's press. They certainly would not have let Russia take the ship and crew back home and do whatever they wanted with them.
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
It makes no sense for Russia to ship anything destined for Iran all the way around the European continent when they have direct access to Iran via the Caspian Sea and rail routes - a route they've historically used for stuff like this.

Wouldn't that be the most obvious way to transport this type of suspected materiel? As if there aren't 2 or 3 countries that located in that vicinity who are part of NATO and may or may not have an interest in what passes through those waters?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Wouldn't that be the most obvious way to transport this type of suspected materiel? As if there aren't 2 or 3 countries that located in that vicinity who are part of NATO and may or may not have an interest in what passes through those waters?

Five countries border the Caspian Sea, none are NATO countries and all but one are former Soviet states. It is the most secure, shortest and most logical route for any arms shipments from Russia to Iran, almost literally a straight line. It is not rocket science, just common sense.
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
Five countries border the Caspian Sea, none are NATO countries and all but one are former Soviet states. It is the most secure, shortest and most logical route for any arms shipments from Russia to Iran, almost literally a straight line. It is not rocket science, just common sense.

Not gunna lie...I confused the shit out of me with regards to the seas that we were discussing. :D

Better question yet though...how many ports in Northern Iran can offload and transport the "suspected" material that has been discussed? 1 maybe 2?

/tinfoil hat
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Not gunna lie...I confused the shit out of me with regards to the seas that we were discussing. :D

Better question yet though...how many ports in Northern Iran can offload and transport the "suspected" material that has been discussed? 1 maybe 2?

/tinfoil hat

How many do you need? Isn't one enough?

Brett
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Hoping I get someone to snarf coffee on their computer with this one

Yes, but none of this explains what happened to Bunny Lebowski or what Jackie Treehorn would want with a ship full of Finnish lumber...

/break

So let me make sure I didn't miss anything- the known facts and official explanation are plausible but don't add up, but a lot of the speculation doesn't add up either. That's pretty much it right now, right?
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Yes, but none of this explains what happened to Bunny Lebowski or what Jackie Treehorn would want with a ship full of Finnish lumber...

/break

So let me make sure I didn't miss anything- the known facts and official explanation are plausible but don't add up, but a lot of the speculation doesn't add up either. That's pretty much it right now, right?

I think the bottom line thus far is this: There aren't a whole lot of "known facts," and lots of people who have watched too many Tom Clancy movies are engaging in wild and uneducated speculation. :D

Brett
 

Fog

Old RIOs never die: They just can't fast-erect
None
Contributor
I think the bottom line thus far is this: There aren't a whole lot of "known facts," and lots of people who have watched too many Tom Clancy movies are engaging in wild and uneducated speculation. :D

Brett

What would it take for you to believe there's an international arms story underlying this "hijacking"? Would Putin & Medvedev have to put SA-10s on parade in Red Square w/ signs saying "thanks Massad for getting our missiles back"!?

We don't know exactly what arms transaction underlay this story. We can be damn sure it's not about a shipment of timber and a failed ransom attempt by Estonian ne'er do wells. It's starting to sound as if you have a financial interest in this story never coming out.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
What would it take for you to believe there's an international arms story underlying this "hijacking"?
Some evidence to that effect.

We don't know exactly what arms transaction underlay this story.
On that we can agree.

It's starting to sound as if you have a financial interest in this story never coming out.

Really now? You must learn to govern your imagination. That's what got you into this mess in the first place.

Brett
 

Fog

Old RIOs never die: They just can't fast-erect
None
Contributor
Some evidence to that effect.


On that we can agree.



Really now? You must learn to govern your imagination. That's what got you into this mess in the first place.

Brett

I'm in no mess. You're in denial there's a story here. But then you probably think Alexander Litvenenko ate some stale food & died of natural causes. I'll be quiet for now, but if this story turns out to be an arms deal that went south, will you pls acknowledge the Russians usually turn out to be the jerks in situations of this type?
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
How many do you need? Isn't one enough?

Brett


What I was getting at was that it is easy for Iran's enemies to watch one or two ports than multiple ones. Sounds sensational and speculative but it's an interesting story none the less.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I'm in no mess. You're in denial there's a story here. But then you probably think Alexander Litvenenko ate some stale food & died of natural causes. I'll be quiet for now, but if this story turns out to be an arms deal that went south, will you pls acknowledge the Russians usually turn out to be the jerks in situations of this type?

No...please...don't... :D FWIW, your participation in this thread has been most entertaining. I have no idea what Litvenenko has to do with this story, but I'll certainly acknowledge whatever truth emerges from this. When you find your smoking gun, you just let me know.

Brett
 
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